Gas Fire - it sounds mental but.................

54and56

Hi all,

So I've a gas fire installed in a living room which gets occasional use as we tend to spend most time in the open plan kitchen. The fire is installed 15 years and uses a remote control to start it up, control the flame and turn off etc.

A couple of weeks ago I walked into the room at 6:30am Tuesday morning and the fire was on full blast. I was the first person up so went mental that someone had left the fire on overnight and that it was possibly for a couple of days as the room hadn't been used since Sunday night. The fireplace is out of view as you walk past the door so you have to lean in to check on it.

All members of the family swore blind they hadn't turned on the fire and forgotten to turn it off so I settled for giving out to everyone that not only does leaving the fire on cost a bloody fortune but it's extremely dangerous and could result in the house catching fire.

Since then I have twice more walked in to find the fire on full blast with no one in the room and no one admitting they'd turned it on so the last time I turned off the fire, took the remote and hid it behind a book on a bookshelf beside the fire thinking that would knock the problem on the head.

Imagine my surprise this morning when I walked in around 7am and the fire was once again on full blast and this time I know none of my family turned it on as the two kids were away on separate trips for the weekend so it was just my wife and I in the house and neither of us used the room over the weekend yet this morning, once again the fire was on full blast when I got up.

How on earth can this be happening????? There is no "manual" way to turn on the fire unless you bend down and fiddle with the dial style starter come flame control knob which isn't easy to do and the remote requires someone to press two buttons simultaneously in order to turn it on so it's not really possible the remote somehow got knocked and started up inadvertently especially not this last time as the remote was literally 6 feet off the ground hidden behind a book.

I've now turned off the gas supply to the fire using the "tap" control on the pipe feeding the fire so my safety concerns are abated but I just can't figure out what could possibly have been starting the fire at random times, mostly late at night or during the night. Is it possible a neighbour has a similar remote which happens to be on the same frequency and when they start up their fire ours starts up also? That's all I can think of.

Before I make an even bigger eejit of myself by asking them if they have a gas fire and a remote control for same does anyone have any other ideas? Has anyone ever heard of something like this happening before? MY curiosity wants to solve the mystery but I also want to return to having a functioning but more importantly that all a safe gas fire which won't randomly fire up on it's on!!

Here are some photo's of the remote, the remote receiver which is battery operated and lives underneath the fire and the manual control panel.

Sleeper12

Take battery out of the remote and see if it happens again. This will rule out/in the remote.

goldenmick

Meet Frank.

54and56

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785443#Comment_118785443

Thanks Sleeper12, that's a good idea. The only concern I have with that is that if I do turn the gas back on and remove the battery from the remote and it happens again (somehow) it could happen during the night and the idea of having a gas fire on full blast downstairs while we sleep upstairs gives me the heebie jeebies!!

Might have no choice but to give it a go though as it would rule out the remote.

Effects

Simple. Get a camera to check when it's coming on. https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-Security-Rotational-Required-TC70/dp/B08K3M6N7C/ref=asc_df_B08K3M6N7C/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=499339562285&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11725117324606820521&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007850&hvtargid=pla-1187358005701&th=1

54and56

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785745#Comment_118785745

Tidy little camera. Might give that a go.

meercat

For this type of gas fire, does the pilot light have to be lit independently before the main gas control unit works. If so I’d turn the pilot light off. It’s possible that another remote control (tv/sky box etc may be having an effect)

54and56

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118789639#Comment_118789639

Yes, pilot light stays lit all the time. The remote control basically just controls the "volume" knob so to speak. To get the fire going you need to press two buttons on the remote simultaneously and to turn down and off the fire you press the down button on the remote and keep it going until you hear the volume knob clicking which means it's off.

I've ordered the TP-Link camera and once it's set with the fire framed in the app for alerts when there's activity I'll turn the gas supply back on again and try and diagnose when the fire fire's up, then remove the battery from the remote and see if that stops it happening etc.

It really is weird.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791051#Comment_118791051

Either the remote control or receiver has gone faulty so. I wouldn’t bother getting a camera. I’d save my money and order both.

just seen the price of that so forget it

have a look at point 8 here about receiver turning on unexpectedly and follow procedures

https://www.cannedheat.com/images/HPC/forms/Trouble_shouting_guide

54and56

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791085#Comment_118791085

That's absolutely mental Meercat, it's actually a known and documented issue!!

I found the remote system manual online and tight there in the instructions it says "Exercise caution when leaving the appliance unattended, in exceptional cases sound waves from sources other than the transmitter can cause changes in flame height adjustment" 😨

How can a product which literally controls an open fire, be considered safe enough to sell if it can be randomly set off by "other" sound waves? It's not like it's a remote control for a TV or some blinds, it controls a bloody fire FFS!!!

I could easily see a scenario where one of the kids or whatever leaves a chair or toy or school bag or some other flammable item close to the turned off fire and during the night the bloody fire spontaneously kicks off and rises to full blast (as mine has a number of times now) and the heat sets fire to the item close to the fire and up goes the house.

I honestly can't believe something as dangerous as this hasn't been recalled.

Would it still pass CE certification etc today?

listermint

Tbf I wouldn't have anything with a continuous pilot light on in my living room.

Nope nope. What's the convenience here. Turning it on on seconds on the rare times it's used?

Turn off the tap and be done with anything else. Turn on when used.

54and56

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791556#Comment_118791556

Yep, that's the current state of affairs and will continue to be as even with a new remote and receiver (unless the technology has totally changed) the risk of a spontaneous fire remains.

The only thing is the way the fires are designed getting down to get into the mechanism for turning on the pilot before using the fire each time is a fairly cumbersome manual task and enough to prevent the fire from being used unless I'm the one willing to get down and get it started which is a shame as the main reason it does get used is when the kids have friends over and they want to use that room.

Safety first though.

Can't believe these are still being sold with nothing more than some small print in the manual that they can spontaneously turn on.

Supermarkets have to recall whole batches of food if there's a trace of egg or whatever in something but a spontaneously erupting open fire, no problem, keep selling them and when doing so don't draw customers attention to the risk, let them find out for themselves when they read the manual because let's face it we know everyone reads every line of every manual that comes with household devices!!

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791051#Comment_118791051

Don't forget you'll need micro sd card for the camera, to look back over the older footage. I got a few in Argos cheap enough.

10-10-20

I think I know what's going on here. I had that same fire and control box 12 years ago.

That remote control is using ultrasonic to communicate with that black box under the fire. Ultrasonics don't use line of sight and aren't affected by heat in the same way as a fire generates infra-red light - potentially interrupting the signal from an IR remote control.

Anyhow that black box under the fire contains the batteries as well as the control circuit for the motor which is located within the gas valve. There are two wires which connect with the motor and these are powered positive-negative to open the valve, or negative-positive to close the valve (called a H-bridge).

That H-bridge remains powered while the box is switched on and only needs a very small amount of voltage to reach the 'gates' of the H-bridge to allow current to flow to the motor. I'd guess that you have a damaged capacitor on the ultrasonic receiver (possibly due to heat), or you had a battery leak onto the circuit and that's allowing just enough current into the motor to power it.

As a test, pull the cable out of the back of the box (there is a black 2-prong mated connector) and if you have a volt-meter, measure the voltage from the back of the box while it's powered-on but inactive. If there's any voltage coming from the rear connector then that's your issue.

TLDR: Isolate the fire when not in use by turning it completely off at the knob.

54and56

Serious diagnostics there 10-10-20.

I've a Brother in law who's a sparks, I'll get him to test it.

Thanks very much.

astrofool

The remotes also have a temperature control, so it could be coming on automatically when the temp drops below a certain level (if this got enabled by mistake), or that component could be faulty (as it should turn it down when up to temperature).

54and56

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798277#Comment_118798277

Hi Astrofool,

My remote is the simple / older / entry level version, no temperature control. Just on, off, flame up, flame down.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798332#Comment_118798332

I see that, interestingly the automatic function isn't allowed for open fires but the housing they use on the remote is the same (the gaps at the top of the remote is where the temperature sensor is located on other models). I'd go with the receiver being the problem, leaving the batteries out of the remote should confirm it (and presume you've tried change the batteries on the receiver already in case of leakeage?).