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1916 Mauser howth rifle,. Raffle

  • 16-02-2022 6:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭


    Stumbled on this in the London times??? Moore Street preservation society/friends are raffling one of the original howth Mauser's as a fund raiser????? Googled it, raffle at Easter, 5euro a ticket. Seems legit, ISH. Bought 2 tickets for the craic. Nice thing to have on the wall, probably be plagued by every historical society in land🤣🤣

    No mention of whether it's serviceable??



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭tomtucker81


    Recently held one, not for sale! Works all good but is for a collection.

    That'd be some win if you got it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭kunekunesika


    Knew all about there arrival since I was little. It's only now I realize that they really were museum pieces when they bought them cheap. I always presumed they were just the German equivalent of the Lee Enfield, how wrong was I.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,919 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Just the over stamping serial numbers of those guns,and their history, as they had changed hands at least 3 times in their lives would give ol Ian Mc Collum of forgotten weapons a good half-hour topic on Youtube.😁

    Wonder how this one was deactivated?Be something to get one of those guns that last fired in Dublin in 1916 working again[And increase its value too] As technically and legally, before whoever takes possession of it now,it must comply with the new EU butchery of firearms...Er ..Deactivation specs and have a relevant proof house cert stating it is compliant.IE welded solid into a club.😡 Having it still as a live gun would prevent such an atrocity to a piece of Irish history. Even if it was sleeved and turned into a 410 smoothbore,be better than just becoming a lump of metal

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭kunekunesika


    If I win it, I'll organise an evening for us all to go forgotten weapons on it. Shame to see it solved in a display case



  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Croohur1


    From the website selling the tickets: The Moore Street Preservation Trust has secured the legal permits necessary for this raffle. The prize is exempt from current firearms legislation as it was made in 1871 and is a bolt action single shot black powder Mauser Rifle. It is obsolete and ammunition for it is no longer available. The rifle is for display and ornamental purposes only.

    Not sure if this makes it any clearer!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭kunekunesika


    I'd be letting my local super know. Fairly sure it won't have be de activated to the latest requirements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,919 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Welll,in that case I'm sure they have the current EU Deact cert for it. And a better reading of the current firearms laws wouldn't hurt either on possession of Deacts. They still need a letter of authorisation from your local Super. Nor does just because it is a BP with an obsolete cartridge,"no longer available"[Dead wrong there too] make it free to own. That legislation applies to pre unitary cartridge designs.IE muzzleloaders etc.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Rifle is in Belfast, so not in this jurisdiction, and Firearm laws in Northern Ireland are totally different in regard to obsolete or deactivated firearms.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭kunekunesika


    I just presumed it was in Dublin??



  • Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Feidhlim Dignan


    I think if it is pre 1874 them it doesn't need to be detivated. It is considered an antique and doesn't require a licence



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,919 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Would still need to be Deacted to "New Spec "UK standards,[from which the EU took most of its more horrible legislation ] if in NI and it is being sold, traded, gifted or inherited FIK.

    Now, more than ever the obsolete calibre exemption is gone in the UK for the last 2 years or so, courtesy of UK criminals buying antique pistols and dodgy gunsmiths making and reloading ammo for them.

    I think if it is pre 1874 them it doesn't need to be deactivated. It is considered an antique and doesn't require a licence

    Going by the 2018 Garda guidelines,if it used a cartridge in any shape or form, it's still considered a licensable firearm. And the pre-1874 only applies to muzzleloaders.

    According to the same guidelines, you do need a written authorisation from a Super to possess and it must be deacted to EU specs if being offered on the open market.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭kunekunesika


    Not sure if I want to win it now ☹️ thought that licensing it would be the easiest option, if working? Now that route would be complicated by import of in Belfast? FFS.

    The only thing it really has going for it, as far as any paperwork etc, is that it would be seen as historically significant . Hopefully that might enough for any involved to be less ackward??



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    You could win it, and donate it to a museum, if you are that concerned about getting it home.

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,231 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Have an M71, has to be licensed, and because of the calibre it's a restricted licence. The Garda policy now seems to be anything with an internally primed cartridge needs a licence. It's pure Irish though because every auctioneer in the country seems to have sold a pinfire revolver at some point and you wouldn't get a licence for the likes of a Lefauchaux due to the calibre.

    Being a guideline I wonder what would happen if the Gardai seized a 150+ year old gun from someone while ignoring the trade in them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭kunekunesika


    Museum?

    Nah, I want to be able to pick it up and hold it, and even shoot it, if it hasn't been welded to death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,919 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    You wouldn't be shooting it much at the price of its ammo.😩Maybe one shot every Easter Monday at the reading of the Proclamation outside the GPO?

    11.50x60Rmm Mauser is still out there as a custom load @ 110 dollars for 20 . Ballistically it's apparently compatible with a 45/70. So it might make an interesting big game rifle as well?

    https://www.buffaloarms.com/43-mauser-11-15x60r-black-po-amobp43mauser.html

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,231 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    "Note: The Moore Street Preservation Trust has secured the legal permits necessary for this raffle. The prize is exempt from current firearms legislation as it was made in 1871 and is a bolt action single shot black powder Mauser Rifle. It is obsolete and ammunition for it is no longer available. The rifle is for display and ornamental purposes only. It is a condition of sale that the winner of the prize agrees that this important historical artefact stays within the island of Ireland and that it will not be sold, loaned or rented to any person, organisation or private enterprise not resident within the island of Ireland."

    The abve, from the Moore St. Trust website, would suggest whichever Gardai district gave permission has lighter controls than the Garda guidelines that I have to conform to. This is what happens when the legislation itself gives no consideration to antique firearm collectors, the rules are all over the place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭kunekunesika


    Sure that's cool, I'll get box to zero it, a few practice boxes to get the feel of it ,and....

    Just need to get a licence for a raffle to fund ammo for me to appreciate history 😂😂

    I knew the ammo had to exist somewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Bosco105


    How do I buy a ticket?

    Have you picture's off the rifle?

    I have one



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,231 ✭✭✭✭kowloon




  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭Mississippi.


    I have a newspaper cutting of a district court case near me.

    The man was caught with a Martini-Henry rifle dating back to the civil war, had been in his family since, two air rifles and a single barrel shotgun.

    The Judge questioned "if the firearms could be rendered safe and put out of use "

    The Garda replied that " no one in Ireland is qualified to carry out such a procedure and they would have to be sent overseas "


    A destruction order was granted for the firearms.


    The defendent was fined €250.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,919 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    ^The joy of not having a proof house in Ireland.^

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Bosco105


    Any rifle that is impossible to get Ammunition for and is deactivated you don't need a license. I have Webleys, lee Enfield 303 and the Mauser



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Bosco105


    I shared the raffle and I know O'Hagan, have some off his collection



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,919 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    You need written authorisation from your local Superintendent to possess them. Usually a once-off affair.

    Depending on what you want to do with the deactivated firearm, you can keep it on an old spec deact in your personal collection and possession.HOWEVER, the moment you offer it for sale, trade,gift, inherit or otherwise pass it out of your possession it must be deactivated to EU standards in a registered proofhouse[IOW welded up into a solid lump of metal mostly] and have a proof house certificate to show that this work was done to the EU standard as per EU weapons directive 2017.

    The problem being here in Ireland is , we don't have a registered proof house unlike the rest of the EU countries. Shipping to the UK is now with Brexit a difficult and paperwork intensive procedure, and shipping to the EU is costly[Est 200 euros per courier journey and whatever the proof house fee will be] Plus some have a 6/12 month backlog in service. Hence, our concern about this rifle being offered in the current deactivated status in the Republic as a raffle prize.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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