Planning - request for further information

Jimi H

Any advice greatly appreciated. I own a small farm. I inherited it 20 years ago but have never lived on it. I’ve put in 2 planning applications to build a small timber frame house. The first was rejected as the area was deemed high amenity. I then had a positive pre-planning meeting and changed the site.

Following the meeting I made a second application and I’ve just received a request for further info. They’re looking for a survey of existing properties on the farm with a view to repurposing rather than building a new house. This didn’t come up on pre-planning at all.

There is an old cottage but it’s completely derelict. There’s no foundation, kitchen roof falling in, damp etc and security issues as it’s been broken into a couple of times and faces straight on to the road in a very rural area. It would be an awful house to live in and the costs would be exorbitant to make it habitable.

My budget and options are getting smaller as costs of planning rise (and building materials). In your experience, are these requests made before rejecting an application? Are the only lines of communication with them through correspondence now or will they discuss it while the application is still live?

Penn

You're free to discuss it with the planner. In fact the FI request letter normally gives you the name of the planner so you can discuss it with them.

It seems like they may be looking for you to do up the older house rather than build a new one, but if you can demonstrate why the old cottage can't be renovated and extended (best to go with numerous reasons; structural, economical, etc) then it might be accepted. You'd probably need to issue a report detailing that as part of your FI submission. But it may not costs as much as you think to renovate/extend the existing cottage, especially taking into consideration grants, and when compared to the cost of constructing a new house.

Jimi H

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615834#Comment_118615834

That’s great thanks. I didn’t know conversations were allowed or entertained once the application had been made. I’ll see what they say and review my options.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616895#Comment_118616895

They won't discuss anything while the application is in a decision stage. Once you've submitted your application, they won't discuss with you until they've made their decision, or requested further information. Since they've requested further information, the application is essentially paused, so you can discuss with them now. Then once you submit your further information, they won't speak with you again until they've made their decision.

Double check the request for further information letter you would have received. It likely states that you should discuss it with the relevant planner, and it might even have their name on it.

sprucemoose

Are you doing this completely by yourself or do you have an architect/engineer involved?

Jimi H

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617019#Comment_118617019

I have an engineer. It’s just a really frustrating process. We had engaged with them before the application and dealt with all of their queries and the goalposts seem to be moving all the time.

Penn

In fairness, with pre-planning the planner can only give you a general guide or highlight key issues you may need to resolve from their point of view. However, once it goes in for planning, it's not just that planner who reviews it. It goes to several different departments, all of whom give their yes or no and general opinions regarding the department theyre in (eg. Transportation, environment, conservation). Hence why 6 copies of drawings and reports are submitted for planning, these go to different departments.

Chances are the conservation officer reviewed the application, saw the existing cottage on the site, and gave the opinion that it would be better to renovate the existing cottage than to build a new house on the site. The conservation officer doesn't get the final say in whether the planning is granted or not, but you now have to show that you've at least assessed the points they've raised, give a detailed response as to why you can't do as they ask, and hope that the case you make is strong enough that those objections are overruled by the planner in making their final decision.

sprucemoose

I see, if you had an architect I would say to tell them it is largely their problem to figure out but with an engineer it would depend on your agreement.

Anyway, it obviously depends on what area you are in but in my experience, if using the original cottage has been flagged as an option then the planners are most likely not going to accept any other proposal unfortunately.

Jimi H

Thanks all for your replies.

So we went back to the council with a survey of the cottage. It’s in a terrible condition and told them renovating the cottage was outside my budget and the only affordable option was to build a small house. We told them I didn’t want to demolish the cottage as it’s been in the family for generations and at a future date I’d like to give it to a family member.

They came back and granted permission with lots of conditions. One of the conditions was to confirm the demolition of the cottage before beginning building works. To me it seems so unnecessary but I guess it’s within their rights. I would have been happy to give it to a state body if they wanted to renovate and use it for the community or house refugees for example. Sometimes it seems state bodies look for problems rather than solutions. Overall though I’m relieved to have the planning as I can move on.