Less experienced colleague now out earning me

needhelpguy

Hi,

I just need to get this off my chest rather than anything else. Recently found out, accidentally, that a less experienced colleague has just received a more than €10k salary increase without a promotion or any change in their position or workload, while I received nothing. This person is in the same team, with the same title & responsibilities and does the same work as myself and everyone else, and is actually the least experienced in the team. They joined about 3/4 years after me, with less overall experience in the industry too. I had known that most of our salaries were in line and they are now suddenly earning €10k more. FYI I work in IT.

Nothing against the person in question but I am completely deflated about this. I made several attempts over the years to get them to match my salary to market rates (I am fairly low on the scale for someone with my skillset/experience) highlighting the skills I have/value I provide, as well as printouts of several similar positions with higher salaries, all to no avail. On top of that this particular industry has been hard hit with the pandemic and we all suffered 30% paycuts over the last almost 2 years as well as loss of bonuses. Pay has since been restored, but it's been tough.

I know there is very little I can do here. I actually love the company I work for, it's very close to home, generally low stress, lots of different areas I can make a difference in, and I have a good team where everyone gets along. I've been here over 7 years. I just feel very unmotivated and deflated (after the initial shock) that someone with so much less experience is now out earning me. They clearly don't value me (or the others on the team) all that much. Very hard to be motivated when something like this happens.

I feel like there's no option but to look elsewhere now, even though I don't really want to. I guess I could just suck it up, and get on with it, but just knowing how little monetary value they place on me in comparisson to someone with less experience will gnaw at me. Or maybe I'll just give up, accept it and plow on as normal.

Rant over. Anyone else been in this position?

noodler

The obvious question, and I hope you won't read it as any criticism of yourself, is has this newer colleague being pulling up trees? How are his qualifications? Does he seem to be getting more responsibility etc.

bucketybuck

Businesses do not hand out money unless they have to, because thats just business. So they did not give the other employee 10k for the craic, they did it because the employee negotiated it.

So if you want similar money then you need to do the same, you need to ask for it and negotiate for it.

And a huge part of that is being prepared to walk away if you do not get what you want. If your bosses think you are all talk and won't fight for what you are worth then they won't give you anything.

If you like your job and the circumstances suit you then it is a perfectly valid strategy to just stay there and do the bare minimum, pick up the wages and don't get invested in the company.

But if the wage discrepancy is going to taint your job satisfaction then it is better to do something about it. Demand parity and walk if you don't get it.

djan

Had a reply written out but pesky new layout deleted it.

I'd echo the above poster, experience does not equate value of an employee to a company. Have a think about the pros and cons of this job and go from there.

Seems like you wouldn't be happy to stay now that you know so be prepared to pack it in if they don't meet your demands. Good luck!

Less experienced, but a more talented wage negotiator.

Mrs OBumble

You have spent years proving that you aren't leaving anytime soon. Why would they given you any more money.

Get jobhunting, or get over it.

My brother got a new job, earning twice what he did. The company he was working for immediately offered to match the new salary to keep him.

Negotiate or be willing to leave for better.

Green Finers

Is increase basing on performance valuation?

What way is wage negotiations? Yearly?

seamus

I feel like there's no option but to look elsewhere now, even though I don't really want to. I guess I could just suck it up, and get on with it, but just knowing how little monetary value they place on me in comparisson to someone with less experience will gnaw at me. Or maybe I'll just give up, accept it and plow on as normal.

This is exactly why you're being paid what you are. Some of your other colleagues are probably also being paid considerably more and you're just not aware of it. Your manager(s) is perfectly aware that the arrangement suits you, that you have a lot of inertia keeping you in your position, and that you're probably meek / chill enough that you can't really be bothered fighting for better pay.

The fact that you presented facts about what's available elsewhere, but still stayed without a pay rise, has told your boss that he can get away without paying you more. It's poor management; a company should always be fighting to keep their employees happy. Compensation is only part of that, but it's not something employees should have to seek out. Few things will buy you more goodwill than a pay rise or promotion to employees who weren't seeking one (but deserve it nonetheless).

At this stage, as others have said, you either have to decide that you're leaving, or that you're happy to put up and shut up. A word of warning - if you hand in your notice and they offer you more money to get you to stay, then they're going to be expecting you to hand in your notice within 12 months anyway. In your case, you might have more to gain by putting your bollox on the line - tell them that you love working there but you are being paid way below market rate and so without a raise (give a specific amount which is 10% more than you want) you will have no choice but to look elsewhere.

If they refuse, you start looking. If they don't, you get paid more without damaging your standing in the company.

jj880

In my experience a threat of "I'll start looking elsewhere" doesnt cut it. Have a job offer for them to match and you will see how much you are valued.

3DataModem

"I made several attempts over the years to get them to match my salary to market rates"

... someone, somewhere, in some meeting or other has described you thusly: "Him? He'll never leave, he's a lifer."

topmanamillion

Personally, I`d been gone already as a matter of principal but you`re settled in this place. €10k is a lot of dough to let pass you by plus all the rest of the money you`ve let go by over the years from not being paid market rate. Have a job offer elsewhere with better pay, no negotiating.

needhelpguy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610034#Comment_118610034

Doesn't seem to be to be honest, we all work on the same sort of stuff, divvy'd out so to speak. This person did get a top score in performance reviews, which we were repeatedly told no-one gets (go figure). I feel some of it is political.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610115#Comment_118610115

No, though this person did get a top score. We are told we are benchmarked to the market rates each year but this was only really done once, then it's been a 1-2% a year, if you were lucky. I guess this person complained about their base pay or maybe they went and got another offer I don't know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610539#Comment_118610539

I think you hit the nail on the head there. They know myself and some of the other guys are not likely to leave easily.

Thanks for the replies. It's disheartening and I have a lot of soul searching to do, do I let this slide? Accept that experience means nothing to them, that I'm really not that valued despite being the tech lead for a number of successful projects and all the other work I deliver? That they would value someone junior so much more? And just be happy with the non-financial benefits? It's a bit of a slap in the face honestly.

Or do I say enough is enough, start looking around, sharpen my skills a bit and try for something better? It's a big risk, and I'm not one who likes big change much. The job is fairly secure with good pension, and as I said close to home, low stress. I'm nearing 40 so these things are weighing on my mind. A lot of thinking to do.

bucketybuck

Your problem seems to be that you have rose tinted glasses about how this should work, that the company should just give you more because you add value.

But value and money don't necessarily go hand in hand. They could know and agree that you are a good employee that they don't want to lose, but that doesn't mean they are going to throw money at you unless they are forced to.

Again, salaries are a cost to a business and no well run business increases its costs any more than they have to. It is a very rare business that is going to throw money at you just because of some vague, nebulous idea of fairness or "value".

Your co-worker marched in, pointed at his performance reviews and said he wanted more or he was out. You ask for more money and when they say no you go right back to work.

Its on you, there is no point waiting for a business to turn into a charity.

tobottherobot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611229#Comment_118611229

Give yourself options man... get onto a reputable recruiter and benchmark your salary with what's out there. If the comparable jobs on offer pay much higher, apply for them and get an offer. If they're on par, case closed.

If you do get an offer, have a conversation with your boss and tell him you don't want to go but you're underpaid based on the benchmarking you did / offer you have.

If they match it, great. If not, you can still stay of course but you know you will never be getting a pay rise. I've done this and had team members do this to me many times.

A2LUE42

Where you said 'I feel some of it is political'. It probably is. That is part of the job too, or can be. You need to see if you can learn something from this new person. They are just in the door, relatively speaking, and have managed to get a better rise than you have managed in a much longer timeframe.

9320

Presume you're on LinkdIn? If not register asap so they'll get at least some inclination that you're potentially serious about your career.

dennyk

In IT, if you're not changing companies every few years, chances are high that you're underpaid; wage compression is pretty significant in this field. That's just the reality of things. At this point your employer has gotten the message that while you might politely bring up your pay from time to time, you're a lifer and not a flight risk, so they're not fussed about giving you more money to keep you around. Only thing that's likely to convince them otherwise at this stage will be your letter of resignation.

It's very possible your colleague was looking to move on and maybe even got themselves an offer and your employer was forced to give them that raise to keep them on. If you want the same, you'll need to put yourself out there and at least get a solid competing offer to light a fire under your employer if they do want you to stick around. That approach isn't without its risks, but if you've been there seven years they can't just up and sack you easily, so it may be worth the try.

Of course, if you really do value the familiarity, lack of stress, and easy commute over making a higher salary and you don't want to risk your position or make waves by waving an offer in their faces, that's perfectly reasonable as well; it's not always about the money, and all those things have value as well. But if that's the case, try not to get worked up over what other workers are making.

TheW1zard

7 years is a good time to get a fresh start. It will be good for you and you'll wish you hadn't moved sooner.

In your next interview dont tell them your current real salary, tell them what youd like it to be so you get a decent offer.

Enjoy the new job!

TheW1zard

I was in a similar position and when I told them I had an offer i didnt even get a counter offer. Told me everything i needed about how I was being valued.

Danzy

Your loyalty costs you.

They have you,so why chase you.

Maybe he had another job offer and they had to counter.

Maybe that he was hired after meant they had to offer more in the market place.

Loyalty costs.

Flinty997

If a company passes over existing staff with new hires with less experience. They are telling them they don't value "their" loyalty or experience. Its time to walk if you get a good offer anywhere else. Simple as that. You're basically reached your limit where you are. Try grab as much new experience, skillsets where you are before you leave.

If you do leave, don't burn bridges, but pass over as little experience as possible when you leave.

Atlantic Dawn

Get another job lined up somewhere else that pays properly, hand in your notice, if they ask is there anything they can do to keep you tell them you need an increase in salary, give them a figure 20% above what the new employer is offering, if they give you that consider staying if it suits, no love lost either way if they can't come back with higher.

still very unclear what the newer person is doing to have gotten the raise

OP that's where I'd be starting from if I were you. work back from there

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118613991#Comment_118613991

They don't need a reason. They don't to justify it either to the OP.

Strumms

We found out that an internal new hire, who turned out to be useless was taken on on a few grand extra… he moved sidewards as wasn’t liking his old job but he was allowed keep his old wage while offering us the productivity of a sloth… he left a payment slip lying around and… bang, somebody looked, all hell broke loose… I think it was about 4 or 5 grand extra and we got to babysit him for the privilege….his old skillset had no bearing whatsoever on his new work… so it made it even more of a mystery. Is grandfathering the correct term ?

two colleagues were spitting blood, I wasn’t happy but reconciled that SFA could be done…

moral of the story, it happens, it’s done to suit the business not the other employees. It ain’t fair but that’s life.

The fixture and fittings experienced employees suffer. Not seen as a leaving risk.

Avon8

I think the question has really been answered by the inexperienced colleague getting the top review rating. Every company says nobody ever gets the top one because it's basically true. So whether they deserved that rating or not, once it was given to them they were always going to get a hefty raise. Young up and comers getting excellent reviews are seen as hot property, especially by HR. If your company is bigger than just your team, which it sounds like it may be, that score makes that employee a shoe in if they were to interview for another role elsewhere in the company at the next level up. So the 10k may be to appease them and stay within the current team. If I got the top review I'd certainly be expecting a good pay rise anyway way above the standard inflation rise

manonboard

(I am fairly low on the scale for someone with my skillset/experience) highlighting the skills I have/value I provide, as well as printouts of several similar positions with higher salaries, all to no avail. On top of that this particular industry has been hard hit with the pandemic and we all suffered 30% paycuts over the last almost 2 years as well as loss of bonuses. Pay has since been restored, but it's been tough.

OP, You are a financial pushover with the attitude you must have given these things are true. YOU, deserve, at all time to be paid market rates. YOU, and you alone are responsible for ensuring you are treated fairly with pay. YOU, have only one single ability to add value to your negotiation side... You must demand fair money, immediately, or walk away from the job.

This is not some scare tactic, this is how you should ALWAYS be. If you EVER find yourself in ANY dynamic or transaction and are unable to walk away, you have zero power. You sit there every day costing them less than what they would pay someone recently in the door.. You are a cheap employee. There is this ridiculously crazy idea in peoples thinking that private companies designed to maximize profit will give you money because they want to be fair. That's nonsense. Absolute childish nonsense. God once you realize that, you will laugh for the rest of your life about your intentions right now.

Go get a better job offer. Get it in writing. Print it out, stick in on your bosses desk. They have a few hours to decide if they are going to pay you fairly or will you give your skills to another person. When you do get the additional job offer, consider if you even want to stay in the company who doesn't treat you fairly after YEARS of asking them for market rates.

On a personal level OP, and i mean this with absolute due respect for you as a person.. don't ever act like a mug in salary talks ever again. You are a product, nothing more, you sell yourself to whatever company gives you the best deal. Your company has no feelings, and 1 day after you leave, there will be a redistribution of your salary to shareholders, expansion expenses or a new job advert.

All that nonsense you get from your manager about, oh we will try sort that, oh ill have a word with HR, oh on the next performance review we will see what we can do.. is all absolute gibberish designed to keep the pay at the same levels along as possible. This is your life you are selling them, the very days where you need to be building wealth for future you. Stop being a mug, and treat yourself right.

Former Former Former

Maybe the guy is just better at his job.

Like, shouldn't people be paid based on their ability and productivity, not based on years served?

witchgirl26

OP you mention "less experienced" than yourself a lot in relation to this colleague but could it be a case that they have more qualifications? Or have recently obtained a qualification that would make management think they might be a more valued (in terms of skillset) than others on the team? Or they could have negotiated it after getting the qualification?

My last role I went in to with someone who had more experience in the industry but I had more qualifications so ended up on a higher salary. My colleague upskilled, got a new qualification and negotiated her salary to be close enough to mine.

Also sometimes people are just better at negotiating than others. Salary surveys are great for reference but it won't always persuade a company to change their rates unless someone is saying they're leaving.

Honestly it doesn't sound so much like you love the company but rather the convenience of the role and location so maybe think about if it's time to have a look elsewhere. And if you do use that as a threat to leave, be prepared to actually leave. Otherwise they could call your bluff. I know a friend of mine who had a good job offer but liked where he was for the most part. Brought it to them to counter and they did saying that the increase would happen shortly. Long story short is they turned down the other role on the potential for an increase that never actually materialised. The company essentially called their bluff. They ended up leaving 6 months later when they realised that the increase was not happening.

Flinty997

If they are all doing the same job there should be metrics to support that.

Flinty997

The flip side of this is that by promoting this guy over everyone else. Everyone else needs to change either how or what they are doing.

That includes not using their expertise to prop up someone lacking it. If they are not lacking ability they won't need the help.

mcgragger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610114#Comment_118610114

This is what pissed me off about employers - why is it always a knee jerk to someone handing in a resignation.

Paying for good staff should be automatic - especially retention

regarding the OP - grow a pair and demand to know whats going on. Get them to tell you why the other person got a raise.

Anyway either way you are not valued there that is clear - If I was you I would find a better job and leave . whats done is done

Flinty997

If qualifications trumps experience then you need to forget about building up experience and focus on qualifications. Which means move job often and spend more time doing qualifications than long hours doing work. It's not valued, so you should take the same approach.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118614659#Comment_118614659

For most businesses labour costs make up the highest proportion of outgoings, unless income increases, giving automatic pay rises reduces profits, so it doesn’t take much business acumen to see why employers don’t automatically give pay rises to everyone. You could argue that by not increasing everyone’s wage automatically, you risk losing good employees, which is a fair assumption, but in this case it appears they gave a wage increase to the employee they want to keep, the same may or may not be true for the op.

km991148

Get out there, do some interviews, get some offers.

You might just end up leaving anyway - but you need to show you are serious.

If you do negotiate - do it without reference to other employees compensation. It all about you, your value, how you value yourself and how much it will cost them to replace you (when you show them that this is a serious possibility).

timetogo1

I used to work with a colleague who was earning €20K less than what I was on several years before in a different company in the same job. He was happy in the job and took the pay increases as they came. I tried to get him to look around as he was on lower than what should have been easily available elsewhere. He was comfortable, and the company knew it. He did a good job and took what was offered so why would the company offer more. It's not personal. They want to get their resource as cheap as possible.

For me, I have changed jobs a few times over the last 10 years and I'm earning double (well a little bit more than double) what I was on in 2012. If I'd stayed with the company I'd probably have gotten the 2% or 3% raise each year. It's much easier to get a 10% or 20% bump when moving to a different company.

I've been upskilling as well and moving the career along but if I'd stayed in the same place I know what my wages would be (as I know some of the guys still there).

So fair play to your colleague. He's doing what he can for himself. That's what you need to do too.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118614659#Comment_118614659

regarding the OP - grow a pair and demand to know whats going on. Get them to tell you why the other person got a raise.

It's hard to overstate how bad this advice is. The OP is trying to convince them that he's a valuable team member. Walking in and dropping a data breach on your boss' desk is not doing it right.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118614659#Comment_118614659

Expecting an employer to discuss another persons salary with you or to justify their decision on granting them a salary increase is childish at best. The employer is not going to violate the other person's privacy rights to satisfy you.

And as for under valued.... the OP has already tried to get a increase and failed - so it a fair bet the employer has valued him at what he is worth to them. And they are very unlikely to be impressed by the approach you suggest.

3DataModem

There is nothing like interview practice and getting yourself out there to see your real value.

I encourage my staff to do it when they are unhappy. "Get out there and market test yourself. Good for the soul, and maybe you'll realise you've got it good, or maybe you'll be able to prove to me that I have." ... it's not adversarial, it works, and if the person does leave it's usually on friendly terms (and rarely due to money).

dennyk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118614659#Comment_118614659

Because a pay rise is a known and permanent increase in labour costs going forward, whereas the risk that an employee might decide they are underpaid and leave for a better offer is just that, a risk. It might happen, or said employee might be like the OP and be content with carrying on at their current salary for years. If the latter is the case, then giving that employee a raise would be a waste of money and cut into your profits for no reason.

As soon as that risk becomes a certainty and a key employee actually has a better offer in hand, well, that changes the equation entirely; now it actually might be worth that extra labour costs to keep that employee on board.

Now, this is purely from a business perspective (and a rather shortsighted one at that), not an ethical perspective, of course. It would certainly be more "fair" to give your good employees decent pay rises and keep their pay at or above market levels. However, capitalism doesn't run on "fair"; it runs on keeping costs as low as possible and revenues as high as possible to maximise short-term profit growth. If the bean-counters have calculated that keeping salaries low is more likely to improve said profits in the short term despite a higher risk of employee turnover, then that's what most businesses will do.

spaceHopper

I'd lay money on it that he had an offer from another company and they matched or improved it. That how he got the pay rise.

You make big deal that he has less experience that you but you have 7 years he has 6, 3 would be plenty. Get out and get a new job, don't take an offer to stay. Take your time and get the right new job for you.