Framing inside Steel Garden Shed

robbie_63 · 08-02-2022 11:05am #1

Hi Folks,

I have a 10x20ft steel shed from adman that is getting fitted soon,

I would like to put in a timber frame inside and panel with MDF Sheets as its a lot cleaner and easier to hang equipment\tools.

I'm just looking for advice on the best way to do it, Shed will be sitting over Concrete Base so "should" be dry.

From what I have ready so far it seems I just need to build a frame from 3x2 timber and then screw mdf sheeting once I work out the gaps,etc

I will probably go with treated timber & treated mdf sheets just for piece of mind.

Shed will be used for motorbike and just for storage\workshop

Any tips on how best to do this?

I saw some ppl recommend keeping the frame up off the Concrete base? Does this make sense?

If I do that then surely the walls are carrying all the weight of the frame\wall, would it not be better to screw it to the concrete at the bottom and then screw the top to the metal frame of the shed?

awec · 08-02-2022 11:49am

I'd use ply instead of MDF.

MDF is very heavy.

OSB would also work, it's cheaper but doesn't look as nice.

robbie_63 · 08-02-2022 11:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599391#Comment_118599391

Ah yes I think in my head I meant ply sheets! Still getting used to all the terms!

So I would be looking at Marine Ply?

awec · 08-02-2022 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599416#Comment_118599416

Yea or OSB. OSB is a cheaper product but doesn't look great. Depends on what you want the final result to be aesthetically.

robbie_63 · 08-02-2022 12:05pm

The "Current" plan is to just paint it as it just looks better than the steel walls,

Just had a quick look and the OSB is a lot cheaper so will probably go with them, thanks for that.

garv123 · 08-02-2022 12:08pm

Would you be better off insulating it while youre at it?

You'll have to do the roof down the line to be effective but at least you'll have the walls done before you screw up the osb.

robbie_63 · 08-02-2022 12:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599488#Comment_118599488

What do you think, is it worth it for a shed that will be just for motorbike, tools, diy workshop?

If so, what's the best insulation to use that won't break the bank?

I'd like maybe down the line to put some workout equipment in there but not sure if I will have the room.

looksee · 08-02-2022 12:27pm

If you look at your Adman shed carefully (and if its the same as mine) you will see that there are 2" channels at the base and top of each section, and a 2" gap behind the upright supports. A piece of 3x2 slips very nicely into this gap, one at each side of each 6ft section and one in the middle. (You have to cut a small angle at the tops of the timbers to get it in snug.) When a sheet or board is then screwed to the 3x2s the whole thing is rigid and not going anywhere, and means you do not have to screw into the structure of the shed. I did not sheet mine, just put up cross bars to hang tools and shelves from and it worked fine. It does not leave much space for insulation, but I have not insulated mine and it is snug and dry. May be worth considering.

robbie_63 · 08-02-2022 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599586#Comment_118599586

Sounds even better, thanks for that

Shed is only being fitted today so will have a look when I get home and see if I understand what you mean, if not I might be back looking for a pic of yours ha

Lumen · 08-02-2022 8:50pm

You won't like Marine Ply when you see the price of it!

robbie_63 · 08-02-2022 10:03pm

Yeah had a quick look today!

One of the guys suggested OSB sheets instead So i think this is what I'll end up using as they will be painted over anyway

acalmenvoy · 09-02-2022 8:18am

My Adman was installed before Xmas and I have started framing it. It is insulated. As looksee said the 2 inch channels are great for the framing. I went a different direction and used 2 by 2s at 600 centers, but screwed them at the top and bottom and at the horizontal metal cross beams at waist high. I then screwed 2 by 1s onto the 2 by 2s to bring them out past the edge of the channels. Put noggins in various places.

Used 12mm ply for the wall. Room for insulation behind as well if needed.

Put up some wall units as well. Made from 18mm ply.

It's gonna take a while but I'm enjoying it.

looksee · 09-02-2022 8:22am

acalmenvoy -that is a much prettier job than mine! Thanks for the pics, it looks great and saves me embarrassing myself by showing my rather rough and ready effort!

robbie_63 · 09-02-2022 10:06am

Thanks for those pics, they are exactly what I was looking for, Although mine is a lot smaller than yours!

Took a quick photo last night, I don't know if these ones have those channels, do you mean underneath the beam going across?

acalmenvoy · 09-02-2022 11:42am

Looks like the panel on the right side has a 2in channel on top??

What does the bottom look like?

robbie_63 · 09-02-2022 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604867#Comment_118604867

Will check again tonight when I get home, shed was only fitted yesterday.

That panel on the Right is the Back wall of the shed, so maybe those have the channels in the profile but the sides dont,

10-10-20 · 09-02-2022 11:59am

Yes, that's a new profile piece which closes out the sloped roof. I'd guess because your shed has the horizontal running folds in the walls, they needed more support on the vertical uprights rather than the support along the top and bottom of the walls (otherwise the walls would have a tendency to bow outwards).

I'd look at drilling in some angle brackets with self-tappers, them mount the wood to those instead. Try retain an air-gap so that you ventilate any humidity.

acalmenvoy · 09-02-2022 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604941#Comment_118604941

Yeah. That makes sense. The folds are vertical on mine. You may have to do it differently. I had to stare at mine for a week before I figured out what to do.

Don't worry, one way or another it's doable.

robbie_63 · 09-02-2022 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604941#Comment_118604941

Thanks for that, makes sense.

Would this work?

Screw a length of 3x2 or 4x2 to the Concrete Floor

Build a frame from 3x2 and then sit this on top of the Timber piece screwed to the concrete floor, and then secure the top of the frame with angle brackets and self tapping screws into the shed frame.

This should keep a lot of the weight of anything I put on it on the frame rather than the Shed walls?

robbie_63 · 23-02-2022 8:45am

Hi All,

Got around to looking at this last night once I got some 3x2 lengths of timber

On the floor, there is a small steel lip from the frame of the shed, If I sit my bottom plate on top of that, it is not level as the 3X2 is wider than the steel lip.

The other option I have is to screw the bottom plate beside the Steel lip and just leave the 1" gap between the Timber frame and the Shed metal panels\frame

I'm assuming I can get some longer angle steel brackets to screw the timber frame to the Frame of the shed,

Any suggestions, I know I am overthinking it at this stage but I don't want to miss something obvious that will come back to bite me later when I'm halfway through

Cheers

jack of all · 24-02-2022 11:35am

I adopted a different approach when I ply-lined my shed 7 years ago and still very happy with how it worked out. Bottom of my (roughly) 38x 32 rough sawn vertical battens are fixed through to a 4x 1" rough sawn board at floor level

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, with ply offcuts acting as spacers which are glued to the insulated panels and screwed back to the vertical battens. All battens were shimmed out as required and checked against a string line and for plumb with a long level. Timber blocks are glued to the floor and screwed back to the 4x1 rail. I was reliant on using a good solvent based panel adhesive for bonding to the floor and insulated cladding- it has held up no problem. I wanted to keep the number of fixings into the steelwork to a minimum- in theory this shed and it's internal fitout could be dismantled and relocated to a new site!

robbie_63 · 24-02-2022 11:51am

Looks good, so how do you keep the frame from falling forward, are the top\middle lengths glued to the Shed frame also?

Spent a few hours in the shed last night and made a start on it,

I already have the 3x2 lengths, and I have the Bottom plate notched out to sit over the shed brackets,

I have the 13 Stud cut to size and ready to screw in tonight so that will give me one full 16ft frame ready to fit.

I am planning on using some straight brackets to attach the timber frame to the Shed Steelwork, this is only to keep it level and help to support it

The Bottom plate will be bolted to the concrete floor so it should be pretty solid hopefully.

I have some foil insulation to go on the inside of the timber frame between the Timber and the metal shed as there will be an air gap there which should work well with the insulation foil.

For me its more of a learning exercise as I've always wanted to get into a bit of carpentry just never had the space until now.

jack of all · 24-02-2022 12:58pm

In my case I have 2x 1 battens glued and screwed to the steel top and mid cladding rails. The vertical battens are then screwed through to these horizontal battens at the top and mid point. Vertical battens were selected for "crown" out so that by using a spacer at the bottom I could correct the straightness as required. When 1/2" ply is screwed on it's quite sturdy and stiff with no movement or deflection at the bottom. Not in the photos, but as ply sheets were fitted horizontally I had a long open horizontal joint between butting sheets, where there is no fixing studwork behind. I counteracted this by gluing and screwing small strips (approx. 75x 400mm long offcuts) of ply to the rear face of the first row of plywood sheets. Once the second row of sheets was offered up this strip would act as a backer which could be screwed through. I was able to use up a lot of ply offcuts (effectively waste) in this way- saving on material and adding to the strength and stiffness of the overall wall panel.

robbie_63 · 25-02-2022 8:14am

Got the frame for the first side done last night, looks alright so far.

I was hoping to tack on a DPM Sheet to the bottom plate last night but the staples I bought don't fit the stanley stapler I have!

Hopefully if I can get some staples today I can finish this section with a DPM Sheet around the base and then tack the foil insulation over it before final fitting.

This section is 16ft long, I have to make another 3-4ft section to finish up to the door but that should be straight forward hopefully not I have an idea of what I'm doing.

Will have a look tonight and see what timber is left over and put in some noggins in each section, I know its probably overkill but the bits of 3x2 I have left are too short for anything else so might as well put them to use.

Picked up some Frame fixers in screwfix so I will screw it to the concrete floor and then some straight brackets to connect the top plate to the frame

robbie_63 · 05-04-2022 12:31pm

Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anyone had a recommendation on the best material to line the shed walls?

I have the studwork frame now installed so its ready to be finished,

I was thinking of OSB\Plywood but I see some folks recommend insulated plasterboard sheets?

I will be using the shed as a workshop for Motorbike and some basic carpentry work so I will be building cabinets to hold tools and mount onto the wall to make the most of the space

Cheers

Rob

10-10-20 · 05-04-2022 3:25pm

Not insulated plasterboard anyway unless they have an unknown physical property which is actually desirable in a shed? They don't take screws other than on the noggins or uprights, they won't be insulating effectively due to the the stud-work, won't offer an effective vapor-barrier because of the stud-work, are harder to work with... etc.

I'd go for a reasonable depth of ply as it gives a good finish. OSB if you like the effect but you'll have to deal with tears on the edges which may lessen the quality of the finish.

robbie_63 · 05-04-2022 7:38pm

Thanks for that yeah I was thinking the same of plasterboard but someone suggested it the other day so I was thinking I was missing something

Shed is only going to be workshop to store and work on bike and other bits so the wall finish doesn't need to be perfect although I would like to be able to paint it so maybe plywood would be easier

Would 12mm be alright to hang cabinets,tools,etc? I would be trying to mount them to the studwork anyway

jack of all · 05-04-2022 8:56pm

I used 12mm pine shuttering ply (elliotis pine) to line my shed, no need for anything thicker in my opinion, especially if you can hit studs. OSB would be fine too, depends on price I suppose, which will probably alarm you when you look at what sheet materials and construction timber are costing now.

robbie_63 · 05-04-2022 8:58pm

Yeah already well aware! ,bought 3 sheets of 18mm ply last week to make some utility cabinets and they were €56 each!

robbie_63 · 27-11-2024 9:10am

Thread Resurrection time!

I am seeing a lot of condensation inside the shed now in winter and I was wondering what was the best way to handle it before it starts to rot my tools inside!

As from the pics above, I have stud frame the whole way around the shed, these stop just at the top of the Wall, I haven't studded the ceiling or anything..yet not sure if I will.

I have foil insulating membrane on the inside of the Stud Wall (Facing the Metal Sheet)

Inside the Stud wall is normal rockwool insulation and just plywood to finish it.

As the eaves are not blocked I would have assumed there should be enough ventilation coming into the shed?

Do I need more ventilation or do I need a small heater to run every now and then to keep it dry?

Cheers

looksee · 27-11-2024 3:45pm

Check whether there is a filler under the roof and on top of the walls - polystyrene looking strip shaped to fit into the ridges of the roof. It should be removed.