Keeping marriage name after divorce

Misty moo

My friend and I are having this discussion on women who still use the marriage surname after a marriage is gone… the scenario is..

a couple married with 1/2 kids, he tells the wife he doesn’t love her anymore and goes off with the woman he’s seeing, they are together a few years built a house together and have a couple of kids and engaged.. the ex wife hasn’t been with anyone since the break up and the 1/2 kids are now in their 20’s.

my opinion is you take up your husbands name in marriage but why keep using it if the marriage is over, maybe some keep it when kids are young for school etc but when the kids are grown up and gone why? To me it screams of trying to hold onto the husband, I don’t get it.. In my case I dropped it after my husband left for another woman I just started using my maiden name, rang revenue and when passport needed to be renewed I updated it then it’s no big deal to revert, just looking for opinions…

Pawwed Rig

Depends why you took it in the first place. Otherwise I would guess it is a lot of hassle changing ones name so some can't be arsed

goldenmick

Depends.

If its an easier surname than your own, well possibly keep it.

If its something like Mrs Boaty McBoatface well then its a no-brainer.

El Tarangu

If you were a barrister or something, and are well-known professionally using your married name, it would not make sense to go back to the name that you used 20+ years ago which no-one in your professional circle would link to you.

wench

My mother married at 18 and moved to Dublin.

When she got divorced some 40 years later, why would she change to a name nobody here knows her by?

woodchuck

If her kids are in their 20s, I'm going to assume she changed her name well over 20 years ago. I can see why someone wouldn't want to change their name after decades. It's how they're known to everyone, both personally and professionally, for the majority of their adult life. It's basically the same reason I don't want to change my name now at 36 years old and newly married!

Like has been said above, when you've been known by a name for a long time, either in your personal or professional life, changing it may be more trouble than its worth.

I've known several women in this scenario (professionally).

Less so nowadays, as more women seem to keep their own names after marriage.

I have no idea why anyone would want to change their name when they actually get married, but if they did why would they go through all the hassle of changing again?

My mother got married around 45 years ago, and divorced around 35 years ago, she still used her married name and believe me, it has absolutely nothing to do with holding onto her husband😂😂

notAMember

Well, the reason some women change their name is to have the same surname as their children. That reason remains whether you are divorced or not.

Your OP assumes the name has to do with the man, rather than her own children.

Name changing is a lot harder to do these days, when women have fuller identities. Email addresses, bills and bank accounts in their own names.

road_high

as a man it never made sense to me why women change their surnames to their husbands. It’s the ultimate act of submission to the supposed superiority of the man. If it were the other way around not a chance it would happen. One of life’s bizarre “traditions” to me

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118549643#Comment_118549643

Couldn't agree more especially as there is no legal requirement, women seen as a possession given by one man to another in marriage, grrrr. Women have fought for equality in all areas for decades yet still do this, baffling.

As far as children are concerned, I know many families where wife kept her own surname, kids have dads, never caused any problems. It doesnt seem to cause problems for co-habiting families either.

As for people like colleagues and neighbours knowing the woman by a particular surname so its too awkward to change, shur that's exactly what happens when taking a husbands name in the first place, everyone has to get used to the change and bank accounts, passports etc need to be changed.

Keeping a former husbands family name after divorce makes absolutely no sense to me. IMO, women should be proud to use their own surname, family and friends know they're divorced and their surname doesn't make any difference to strangers.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118549643#Comment_118549643

That is a fairly bleak way of looking at it. I would see it more as becoming part of a new family unit whereby you have left your own family and are joining a new one. Also it makes sense that everyone in your family unit has the same second name.

I would be indifferent to who takes whose name or if they made up a new surname but please no double barrelling

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118550326#Comment_118550326

Not bleak at all, just practical, because the reality is that many couples divorce so taking on someone elses name should not be done lightly.

As for everyone in a family unit having the same surname, well its a nice idea but in modern life its not always possible. People with kids who are in second or subsequent relationships are blended families who already have different surnames, its very common. For everyone to have the same surname, one partners kids would have to change, so Deed Poll or maybe adoption?? Good luck with that if you had teens or young adults and asked them to change their name because you'd met a new partner...

mickuhaha

Two things and disclaimer, I am not a solicitor but have discussed this with one. I may have picked up the information incorrectly. A marriage certificate is also a legal name change. So once you put what ever name on the form, that's your legal name and is technically fraud using any other name on legal documents. It is also rare that this is enforced. A second thing this remains your legal name unless it's changed including during divorce by the judge which normally restores it to before the marriage, at which point the former name is now the legal name again.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118553097#Comment_118553097

I’m afraid you’ve definitely picked that up incorrectly. Here is the citizens information.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/changing_your_name_by_deed_poll.html

Names in Ireland are by common usage, nothing to do with marriage certificates, name changes are not in law at all, your solicitor friend needs to go back to college. You can call yourself Mr MonkeyPants from tomorrow on, absolutely no legal impediment to it.

Women who don’t change their name are definitely NOT commuting fraud.

And if you’ve seen a marriage certificate, you will see that it is the unmarried names on there.

Matchy matchy surnames is an English colonial hangover. It was from the property transfer rules the British culture had. Women were part of the property transferred from parents to husband with a marriage contract. Former British colonies are the countries it’s popular in. (Ireland, India, US, Canada, Australia) Traditional Irish names didn’t do it, Spanish names have never done it, Greeks don’t do it, etc. some in the anglophone world attach sentimentality to it now. Much of the rest of the world sees it as confusing or odd to be named as a sister / child / property of your husband.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118553043#Comment_118553043

We don't live in America though and the family unit is still the predominant norm in Ireland. Equally our divorce rates are very low by international standards. Your blended families are not that common although do exist at a higher rate than previous generations.

woodchuck

Getting a bit off topic, but I hate this idea that you all need the same last name to be a "family unit". My husband and I are no less of a family unit, even though we have different last names.

An ex of mine was adamant that I should take his last name if we married. I was very open about the fact that I didn't want to change my name. He used the "family unit" argument. I told him that if it was that important to him that we have the same last name, I'd be perfectly happy for him to change his last name. He didn't even entertain that suggestion. I think it's funny how there are men that want the family to all have the same last name, but are aghast at the mere suggestion of changing their own name!!

I think it comes down to personal preference. I know a guy who took his wife's name on marriage and adopted her children from a previous relationship so they would all have the same family name. It worked for them and its what they wanted.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118553339#Comment_118553339

thankfully we have moved away from the previously held, narrow definition of what constitutes a family unit, ie husband, wife and kids.

We have all sorts of family units here, traditional, blended families, cohabiting couples, same-sex couples, individuals parenting alone, whether they are separated, divorced, widowed, unmarried. We dont need to look to the US or anywhere else for evidence. The big difference between Ireland and other countries is that it took so long for our legislators to finally catch up with the reality of peoples lives and change the law to give them legal recognition.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118554712#Comment_118554712

Ireland was on of the first countries to recognise same sex marriage?? There are still a huge amount of countries that criminalise these relationships but in Ireland they are fairly normal. The big difference between Ireland and other countries is the complete opposite of what you say.

Currently only about 10% of the countries in the world allow ssm. Ireland is a leader in this regard

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118554634#Comment_118554634

IMO, an example of why its a bad idea to mess around with names. Ok the man in this relationship choose to start using the wife's name and that's his personal preference, but it's not a legal change and he can stop using it if he decides or if they divorced at some future time. Adoption on the other hand is a very legal process with far reaching consequences, and changing any child's name in that way would need to be for a very good reason and not just that they wanted to have the same surname. What happens if this marriage ended up in divorce? Her male kids now have a surname they have no biological connection to and their future offspring/grandkids bear the family name of a man their mother was married to for a few years. Not a great scenario..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118555035#Comment_118555035

If this marriage ends in divorce the kids still have the exact same family name as they had before the marriage.

The only person who changed name, was the husband and adoptive father.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118554459#Comment_118554459

I don't think people say you NEED to have the same last name to be a family unit, but for some people it feels right to all have the same name for THEIR family unit. Its a personal decision on the reasons for it are personal and unique to everyone.

Obviously with blended family the decision becomes more complicated but its still a personal decision and none of anyone elses business.

I took my husbands name, he thinks its not worth the hassle for me but I like the symbolism of it personally - and if we have children I would like the same name as them. Both my sisters have different surnames to their children and I see no issue with that as it works for them, I don't think they are any less of a family unit or lesser mothers for the decisions they made. I respect their choice and they both respect my choice.

It didnt bother me which name we took; his, mine or a made up name - but his name is easer than mine (i do not missing having to spell my surname multuple times for people still to get it wrong) and he doesnt place the same symbolism i do, so he wouldnt have gone through the hassle of changing. Plus my surname is not my surname - its my dads, so whether I change to my husbands or keep my original name I am still taking a mans name. What annoys me more is the default setting that children get the fathers name when parents have different names. I think that maybe should be challenged a little more but again to each their own.

Pawwed Rig

Is that the default? Is is not up to the parents (or mother) to determine what surname goes on a birth cert?

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558070#Comment_118558070

I meant more the default in society. The only time i have seen/heard of children taking the mothers name instead of fathers is where the father is not involved. It seems to always be father or double barrelled - in my experience anyway.

Bobsammy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558037#Comment_118558037

I cannot wrap my head around this argument and it's not the first time I've heard it. Why is your birth surname your father's yet your husband's is his own? Surely by that logic it should be his father's?

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559832#Comment_118559832

I dont think my husbands name is his own, i think its his fathers too - or whoever so far down the male line of the familys where it may have started. WHen I say his name, i mean the name he uses.

My point is for me I dont actually care so much where the name originated, i don't subscribe to the notion that taking my husbands name is anti feminist because I am taking a mans name - most of the surnames out there are originally (in ireland) mens names.

I like the idea of all of us in the family having the same name. Thats it - no deeper meaning, I would have happily changed both our names, but my husband doesnt care if we have the same name or not and so it made more sense for me to take his.

Pawwed Rig

Is 'the name he uses' not his name??

And what is wrong with having your Father's name? It is not like a venereal disease.

Sad that someone would be ashamed to have their family name

Bobsammy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559918#Comment_118559918

I guess we just view things differently so.

I really feel that whatever name a child is given at birth becomes their name, regardless of where the name originated. I hate the narrative of people (women) not owning their own name, just borrowing it from a husband, father, mother or whoever.

My children have the same name as me, their mother, the same name I've had since birth. But it's their name now every bit as much it it's mine.

Bobsammy

Actually to add to what I wrote above, I also feel that if someone changes their name, whether it's after marriage or for any other reason, then that is also their name and getting divorced shouldn't mean they have to 'give back' the name if they don't want to.

Misty moo

Thanks for all the replies and I can see both sides of the argument, the person I was referring to (let’s call her Joan) doesn’t need her marriage name for business reasons etc I just don’t understand why keep the name your husband is gone and he ain’t coming back, the one daughter is in her 20’s.. I got divorced years ago I immediately dropped my marriage name, everyone that knew me knew the marriage had ended and I said I’m using my maiden name so over time everyone called me by my maiden name so there is no big deal saying your using maiden name, I rang revenue etc that took a couple of minutes, I didn’t have to go near a solicitor or anything like that, anything I signed up for I used my maiden name, utility bills etc was just a phone call too, people seem to think it would be a really big deal changing back but it really isn’t. When you get married you take his name if you want and when the marriage ends that should be the end of the name too, I just feel it’s joan clinging onto the last straw, her father gave her her name and that’s the name she should use, sorry to say this but basically marriage is just a piece of paper and anyone who has gone through a divorce will know that, a judge stamps a piece of paper (takes about 20secs) and the marriage is legally finished, she’s nothing got to do with her exhusband anymore.

goldenmick

Just thank the Lord you never had the surname of this fecker....

The longest personal name is 747 characters long, and belongs to Hubert Blaine Wolfe­schlegel­stein­hausen­berger­dorff Sr. (b. 4 August 1914, Germany) who passed away on 24 October 1997, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA, as verified on 1 January 2021.

Hubert's name in full, (without senior) is Adolph Blaine Charles David Earl Frederick Gerald Hubert Irvin John Kenneth Lloyd Martin Nero Oliver Paul Quincy Randolph Sherman Thomas Uncas Victor William Xerxes Yancy Zeus Wolfeschlegelsteinhausenbergerdorffwelchevoralternwarengewissenhaftschaferswessenschafewarenwohlgepflegeundsorgfaltigkeitbeschutzenvonangreifendurchihrraubgierigfeindewelchevoralternzwolftausendjahresvorandieerscheinenvanderersteerdemenschderraumschiffgebrauchlichtalsseinursprungvonkraftgestartseinlangefahrthinzwischensternartigraumaufdersuchenachdiesternwelchegehabtbewohnbarplanetenkreisedrehensichundwohinderneurassevonverstandigmenschlichkeitkonntefortpflanzenundsicherfreuenanlebenslanglichfreudeundruhemitnichteinfurchtvorangreifenvonandererintelligentgeschopfsvonhinzwischensternartigraum.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572182#Comment_118572182

Well my mother most certainly didn't keep her married name in any type of attempt to hold onto her ex husband. I think you're being very judgemental about your 'friend '

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572182#Comment_118572182

If a woman chooses to change her name on marriage, that name is now hers just as much as her previous one.

It isn't a temporary loan, to be returned upon divorce, divided up like the good china.

You wanted to change yours, more power to your elbow, but how about letting others decide what suits them and lay off the judgements.

Faith

Is Joan your partner's ex-wife or something? You seem unusually fixated on what she does when it has literally no impact on you at all.

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572182#Comment_118572182

It sounds like you were pretty ok to split up and remove your ex-husband from your life, maybe Joan was not as accepting as you were of the end of her marriage. Some people really believe in the 'til death do us part' and are very affected by the end of something they thought would last forever.

Maybe she just likes the name.

Maybe she prefers it to her maiden name.

Maybe she has reasons to want to disassociate from her maiden name...who knows? It's really only Joan's business, everyone is different.

Misty moo

Calm down guys before anyone slams me more I am happily single so it’s not a girlfriend of my ex so forth nothing like that at all… it’s still a made up scenario Joan with one child is a made up picture.. I have never gone out with an attached man or broke A marriage that’s not me I know plenty who have.. as I said it’s a made up scenario bits taken from people I’ve heard from.. don’t take it personally 😬😬

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118549643#Comment_118549643

Its for the kids ,

Some things in life can just be easier if the mother has the same name as her children ,

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118654612#Comment_118654612

So give the kids their mother's name instead of the father's. Problem solved, no?

boardlady

Interestingly, whichever parent rocks up to apply for the child's birth cert can now give them a surname of their choice. This is the format of birth certs since pre 2008 (not sure when). My birth cert (and most of yours) just gives our forenames and no surname - the 'presumption at law' is that your surname is that of your fathers. Thankfully, this ambiguity is now gone, which is great for the children of separated parents where one parent might seek to 'change' the child's surname by use.

boardlady

I know a man who separated while the child was very young (pre-school) etc. And his ex wife just began using her own surname as the child's surname. This was made possible due to the old style of birth cert. Nothing to be done about it. The now-adult child was very upset that this decision was taken for her throughout her school years.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118654676#Comment_118654676

Why? As a parent we make all sorts of decisions on behalf of our kids with a lot more consequence than a surname? I am not understanding why the child would be upset.

I actually know a couple where both of them took a double barrel name - both of their names.

Hotblack Desiato

Just say no to double-barrelled names! (Nobody calls John Lennon John Ono Lennon even though he did change his name)

What's interesting in the "taking a man's name" discussion is that many names in Ireland - O'-, Mac-, Mc-, Fitz-, Mag- mean "son of". So any woman with such a name has what was originally a man's name.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118654664#Comment_118654664

You could but you haven't solved the issue you've just transferred the issue to the Father ,

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118662621#Comment_118662621

In Iceland your not allowed take your partners surname

All men's surnames names with son , like Gudjonson (so of Gudjon) , all women surnames end with dottir like Gudjondottir (daughter of Gudjon), You can have your mothers name in surname if you wish,

They also donlt give there kids first names till they get to know them ,so about 3 months,

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118549643#Comment_118549643

Because the way it was conceived in the past was that the woman was going from her using her father's surname - not "her" name - to her husband's surname. The surnames are patrilineal.

In Judaism your status as a Jew is matrilineal: if your mother was Jewish, you are considered Jewish