Advice for a new build

clouddy

We're building a new house and expecting 1st fix electrics to start next week. I've a technical background and it's my intention to future-proof the house as much as possible now, in terms of cabling/networking/automation integrations etc. There's an absolute abundance of options/posibilities, which has my head frazzled, so I'd appreciate any thoughts/opinions or corrections to any of the following...

Automation/Integrations - I'm planning on using HomeAssistant as the backbone for as much as I can. I'll have a plant room to house most systems.

Networking

• Cat 7 to all TV locations / Office / Bedrooms, wired back to the Plant room
• Several Unifi Access Points located on both ground + 1st floors
• Undecided on a POE switch, but it will be managed (Maybe one of Unifi's, or a Cisco)
• Potentially an additional switch to handle HDMI/AV over IP

Q: Is anyone wiring Cat 8 these days or is it too early? 

Q: Is it overkill to have conduits going back to the plant room for all of these cables, or should a conduit only be put in for main rooms that might need Cabling upgrades in the future?

Lighting

• Intending on having smart switches everywhere, with as many smart/hue bulbs as can be afforded
• As far as I understand, it's recommended to wire switches with a neutral

Q: Is it a totally acceptable solution to use a load of Shelly Pro (no wifi) relays in the breaker box for this? Or would it be best to use smart switches that have this intelligence built in to them at the wall-level? 

Q: Is there any benefit to wiring Cat cable to switches? I've heard of people doing this, but not familiar with it's benefits etc. Would my electrician look at me like I've two heads if I asked for this, or is it common to do this?

Security Cameras

• Going to go with Unifi's range of G4 Bullets, and their G4 doorbell (wifi) also. Couldn't find any doorbells that didn't require wifi and were as good a standard as the G4.

Intercom

• Undecided on this, however I have asked for power + network cabling to be brought out to the front wall
• I've heard that Comelit intercoms might be a good option

Alarm system

• This is a toss-up between a wired HKC or a wired Vanderbilt (SPC) system. 
• I don't like that HKC is somewhat locked down to their own app, without any native HA-integration. I have heard this can be bypassed by wiring up a Konnected device to it, but this would mean the KeyPads would be useless as far as I understand. ie. you wouldn't be able to disarm the alarm using the keypad
• Vanderbilt on the other hand already has an integration with HA, so that would save me a bunch of time trying to figure out.
• I'm not aware of any other glaring differences between the two, although I've heard that HKC has a slower polling mechanism, which isn't ideal.

Multi-room Audio

I intend on having a 7.2.2 surround sound setup in the main TV room. I was also hoping to also have ceiling speakers in both the open-plan / living room area, and one of the bedrooms upstairs. This would equate to atleast 3 'zones' for audio. 

Q: What would be a suggested setup for this? AVR in the main TV room to be used solely for surround sound in that room, and a separate AVR elsewhere?

Q: Should these AVR's be located in the plant room, with speaker cables from all rooms terminating there also? Not sure what to ask the electrician to do here.

Q: Would having a couple of RPI's running BalenaSound be a good option? Presuming I would still need a receiver in between the RPI and speakers, but not totally sure.

TV/Entertainment

I might need to run this by another subforum, but what I was intending on doing was using AV over IP. It's apparently more flexible / better value than a HDBaseT matrix? From my understand, these will require encoders/decoders at each input/output location. I've heard of 'Just Add Power', however I'm not sure about the pricing for these or if there are any other options.

If anyone has any suggestions or comments on the above, it would be greatly appreciated.

ECO_Mental

Wow there is a lot there but coming from someone who has just built a house and lived with **** IT infrastructure before I wanted to get it right for my new build. Here is my two cents and advice and I am very happy with how my house works now.

Networking

Use CAT6 cabling (forget about CAT 7 or 8) CAT 6 will do 10gig over 50 meters and no run in your house should be that long. CAT6A you could use as well but it has to be terminated correctly to get the benefit.

Wire CAT6 to every room and have a double socket, in the main rooms I have 2 double CAT6 points at either corner. People say its over kill but I think I nearly have something plugged in at every room and its well worth it. Obviously bring CAT6 to the ceilings where you want your APs, security cameras, one to the main fuse board where probably you will have your solar PV inverter. Bring one also to your external EV charging point.

Have them all terminate at the one point where your switch will be. Dont forget to bring a CAT6 to where the ETU box will be for your fibre.

I have gone all Unifi myself and am very happy with the performance. I use a UDMP, 24 port POE switch, 2 U6 Lites, 1 HD Nano, 1 In-Wall HD and an external Mesh wifi on the patio (roll on the summer) WiFi around the house is rock solid 300-500 mb/s

I have a G4 Pro also which is very good, although I had to get a replacement due to the condensation issue....

When running cables around the house make sure your electrician separates as best as possible the CAT6 and the power cables (in particular if they run parallel) because in theory you can get interference. I didn't and it caused me one or two sleepless nights thinking I f**ked up as the all the ceilings were covered up at that stage. But I have run iPerf tests and I'm getting full gig up and down on all my runs so it worked out. But if you are going to have long runs with you network cabling next to the power it could be an issue.

Home cinema

I have a TV media room Xbox AV receiver etc and what I have here is an unifi In-Wall HD access point which also doubles a a mini switch and everybody has 500mb WiFi in the room also 😎 What I did I was put in a 7.1 like this where my AV receiver will be and got the electrician just to pull speaker cable from here to my speaker points. and its working a treat.

TBH looking at your post I am thinking you are over complicating it and over thinking it....I have no smart lights, no house wide speaker system. I have a buddy who spent €50k putting in a centralised media server system and he said its the biggest waste of money he very spent. His kids never use it they are on their phones all the time.

What I have are two decent Samsung LED TVs and from them I get Disney+, Apple TV, Netflix etc and they all push out 4K and Dolby Atmos etc what more do you want.

My advice is get your Networking infrastructure right and that will be the back bone of everything else. Also if you are living in the country (and the city) think about how you are going to get fiber into your house and be ready for it..... NBI-End-User-Premises-Infrastructure-Document.pdf

I am running Home Assistant on a PI4 at the moment and only using HA for monitoring energy PV etc. But I am only learning. I might start to do some automation's later but cant really figure out what would be useful.

clouddy

Thanks very much ECO_Mental, really appreciate your comments and advice based on your own new-build journey. You could be right about over-thinking things, I just dread not having done something right at this early stage in the build, but like you said, having good network infrastructure will provide a solid foundation for everything else.

BoardsMember

Is it worth bearing in mind that in ceiling speakers tend to not be great. And as other remark says, it can be a waste to get wired for sound throughout the house.

What we use is an AV that has 2 zones. One zone is the cinema/surround sound. Zone 2 has decent free standing wired speakers.

In the AV I have a chrome cast audio, and I have Google home speakers in kitchen and bedroom. I use Google to create speakers groups, and then cast to these groups as needed. It gives me decent all of house sound, which I rarely use to be honest. But gives me decent sound in 2 living rooms from one AV. AV is connected to the network and has a decent app.

Skygord

Renovated a cottage in 2016, didn't go as far as your plans, but here's what I did and lessons:

1. I put Cat 6 to all TV locations and a few other spots around the place - every room has at least one.
2. I also ran Satellite and Aerial cables to all TV locations.
3. Central point picked was with future arrival of Fibre into the house in mind. Modified an Ikea cabinet with wire shelves and thermostatic fans, so it will turn the fans on to cool the cabinet automatically. Looks neat and not techy till you open it.
4. Central point has a Gigabit switch in the cabinet.
5. Went for the Vanderbilt system (installed by Quantum Security). Very happy with it, and the installer. Get the alarm company to tell you where to drop the alarm wire to each window/door sensor, and motion sensors - we routed them to the wrong place on our sash windows, so we don't use them there. Our alarm box is beside the fuse cabinet and I forgot to drop a Cat 6 cabe to it. Ran one from a socket nearby no problem though.
6. Our doorbell wire was sited facing across the door, so will need moving for a video doorbell. Route yours to a front facing wall.
7. I wired 3 circuits to go outside for garden, with switches in the porch. Haven't done the garden lighting yet, but the wires are there outside with switches ready.
8. I put in plenty of outdoor power sockets - one double on every side of the house. Happy with that.
9. I wish I had done more outside lighting on the walls of the house at the time.
10. I plan to get n electric car soon. Apparently the charger will have to be wired direct all the way to the fuseboard which will be a pain. Wish I'd dropped a wire in for that at the time.

I can access our heatpump, alarm and velux windows remotely. I use Google Home Hub for a central panel to control some smartbulbs, andd other Google speakers for sound.

I want to add smart switches on walls now, and have no idea what to get yet.

Good luck!

MuttonDagger

coming from an electrician that wired his own house within the last 2 years.

You will never get it right from the start ......

I'm still chopping and changing!

Wire you sound for 7.2.4 Chances are your new AVR will support it.

Think about lamp switches too.

bk

You seem to have a good plan, but just a few thoughts.

For the alarm, I’d also look at the newer Ajax Alarm system, though I’d definitely go for Vanderbilt over HKC.

For light switches, if you end up going for Philips Hue or similar smart light bulbs, you don’t really want to use the switch. Smart bulbs typically want to be powered on (standby) at all times. Many of us end up covering our light switches and use wireless switches instead.

If you aren’t sure yet about what you are going to do about lighting yet, I wouldn’t worry too much about it, I’d just make sure you get Neutral wired to every switch and a nice deep back box. That will make it easy for you to add a smart switch later if you want.

You might want to make sure that you get adequate coax/sat cable runs from your roof for satellite and aerial to your comms area and also from your front door if in a virgin media area and then from your comms to your living room.

Very good point above about getting the wiring in place for a possible future EV charger.

ECO_Mental

Very good point above about getting the wiring in place for a possible future EV charger.

YEs this is what I did for my new build even though I don't have an EV, because we will all be driving EVs in 10 year time. I got two cables pulled for two chargers and the electrician just put an isolator on them. They are not wired into the board but the cables are coiled up in the consumer unit. I also pulled a Cat6 cable to each charger point as well as these EV chargers will need an internet connection. for the sake of pulling some decent cable now will save you a fortune down the line.

FastFullBack

Might hijack this thread as I have some similar questions.

I'm about to submit planning on a new build and trying to get started on smart home design.

First thing I want to plan is lighting. I already have a lot of Philips Hue gear so would like to reuse that. Right now its covers over switches, sensors and a good few bulbs.

So I want the full house to have smart bulbs. I understand the switches need to be wired with a neutral wire. Once that is done what options is there for ZigBee switches so that the wall switch is effectively a Hue switch?

Is there any drawbacks to having every switch being smart?

And for sensors, are there better ZigBee options other than the original hue?

Any other advice for someone planning to use ZigBee/hue in a new build. My plan is to be then able to control everything via sensors, auto timers, some switches, hue app, google home etc.

bk

To be honest, Philips Hue and wall switches don’t really mix well. Ideally you just want to leave the hue lights powered on all the time.

Strictly speaking you could use a zigbee switch and routines, but it would be messy and not a great experience IMO

What many people do is simply permanently wire the light on where the switch would normally be and then cover the hole with a plate and instead use a wireless hue switch to control the lights. There are some fancier options now and non techie people wouldn’t even know that they aren’t using a normal light switch.

Personally I just cover more old light switch with a cover and use the Hue wireless switch.

BTW if you go with the above, I’d still make sure that there is Neutral at every switch, in case you change your mind later.

There is also this option from Philips now:

https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-philips-hue-wall-switch-module/046677571160#features

FastFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590420#Comment_118590420

Thanks. Ya permanently wiring the lights on is probably what I'm thinking. Any disadvantages to this approach?

What are some of the fancier ZigBee switches that you mentioned?

donalh087

I built my own home about 4 years ago. The one tip I wish someone had given me is about outdoor lighting.

We have a long open living area and three of the walls have large, floor to ceiling picture windows. During the day the view is beautiful and agricultural. I wouldn't swap it for the world. I feel immersed in it.

At night however things are different. The windows are dark outside and bright inside so the three windows look like massive mirrors. It makes the room look colder, somewhat bleaker and a bit eerie. We were advised to install outside lights and the difference is marked. The lights aren't there so that you can see outside, the lights are there so your windows don't turn into mirrors.

Trust me here.

NewClareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590420#Comment_118590420

I agree that having a deep back now with neutral at every switch is the most future proof option.

Having said this, the V2 version of the Hue switch plays pretty well with Irish/UK wall switches. The existing light switch can be bypassed using a connector strip and the back plate of the Hue Switch can be screwed in directly to the wall box. This completely removed the need for a blanking plate and means the Hue switch is in the correct position.

I'm not impressed with the Hue wall switch module, having no option for mains power, is a good solution in a domestic setting. For most people the V2 Hue switch is a far better option as there is no need to remove the blanking plate to replace the battery.

Coddle4dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598308#Comment_118598308

I personally wouldn't wire them that way,but if you are it so you can go back to traditional switching .

FastFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652790#Comment_118652790

Thanks. What way would you wire them?

My aim is to have smart lights everywhere with some sensors and lots of lights on timer. I would like each room to still have physical switches obviously but ideally these act as smart switches, so switching them does not turn the power off fully to the lights.

I have 20 Hue lights & 3 sensors already so would like to reuse if possible. It's a new build so it should be the easy compared to retrofit, but I'm still unclear of my best option here. I'm also still learning so probably missing something obvious.

Coddle4dinner

If you wire the house in the normal way you will have the option to permanently supply the bulb & go back to a normal rocker switch.

You'll need to think about your two way/intermate switching.

In my house every bedroom has a 3 gang switch each side of the bed.

reading light, bedside lamp & main light . I dont see the need for 100% smart bulbs in any house but what ever you are into !!

I have a sonoff NS panel by the front door and I like it ,its a bit limited but its very cool.

FastFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652753#Comment_118652753

Hey guys,

I'll be meeting electrician in a few week for first fixing on a new build. Regarding light switches I'll have 2 instructions:

1. Neutral at every switch
2. Deep back box

My question is what is the exact size people mean when they say deep back box? Is 35MM deep enough or should I ask for deeper like 47MM. I'm using these sizes as references as I see those sizes as options for back boxes on screwfix.ie.

Thanks

FastFullBack

So it looks like standard back box is 25MM.

Is 35MM deep enough for any potential future smart devices being embedded or should I ask for 47MM?

NewClareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121782780#Comment_121782780

Nodbody knows what the future will bring. If you can do it easily why not have the added flexibility of the deeper box?