Car damaged by the car park operator?

patrickps

I live in an apartment with an underground car park that we need to pay extra to access. Over Christmas, a pipe or something leaked all over my car. I came down to the car one day and it looked like I had driven through a muddy puddle or something. Anyway, I got the car washed yesterday and the paint is badly damaged where whatever leaked on my car was heaviest.

I'll have to wait untill Monday to go down to the management office, but does anyone have any idea on their liability here? I know all car parks have signs saying management accept no liability or responsibility for any damage causes. But surely if their building causes the damage that doesn't cover it?

maestroamado

did you take a pic of what happened and where...

patrickps

No not at the time of the leak. It looked like dirty water and I didn't think any damage was caused at the time. I've taken pictures of the damage and can show them the parking spot I used and there's some pipes and stuff above, there's also evidence of the leak on the ground around that area too.

maestroamado

I would contact the manage company and see what they say... do you have receipt for car wash or credit card receipt for this.

I would tell the management company that you were going to make a claim from your car insurance and see what they say...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442660#Comment_118442660

If the OP claims off his own insurance it won't affect the management company.

Definitely take pictures of the leaking pipe and a sample of the liquid.

silver2020

misleading subject.

your car was NOT damaged by the carpark operator and if you go down this type of accusatory road you will rightfully come up against a brick wall as the operator did not damage your car in any way

A pipe or something in the fabric of the building has caused damage to your car.

The management company or the the company that has responsibility for the pipe or whatever item caused the damage is responsible to remedy the situation either out of their funds or via the building insurance (which you pay for in your service fees)

Those disclaimer notices effective are saying that if some hoodlum comes in and slashes a few tyres or a third party vehicle side swipes your car and drives off, they have no responsibility and that is quite correct - otherwise your service charge which is how the insurance is paid, would jump by hundreds.

But do not accuse the operator of damaging your car.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442701#Comment_118442701

If the OP can confirm the damage caused by the management company thee car insurance company will claim against the management company.

The management company will be aware of this and may want to avoid the hassle... That's why solid evidence is needed... Most people in both of these areas will not accept liability unless it can be proven...

Eggs For Dinner

In what way were the management company negligent? You need to be able to prove this to be successful. The fact that the water escaped from their pipe is not sufficient in itself

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118444577#Comment_118444577

What? The management company would be responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the pipe work.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118444587#Comment_118444587

But they are not negligent for a sudden and unforeseeable event. Now if they were aware of the problem and failed to rectify it, that's another matter

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446827#Comment_118446827

That's why people buy insurance for accidents like this...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118444577#Comment_118444577

insurance job...

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446995#Comment_118446995

Yes, they do. That's why the car owner bought insurance, so he is free to claim for an accidental damage under his policy. As for the property owner, he bought Public Liability cover. This protects him for claims against him for NEGLIGENCE. It does not cover accidental damage to other people's property.

Like I said previously, if this is an issue the property owner was aware of (or should have been aware) the OP may have a case

Peregrinus

This is a storage facility. The OP pays the management company in order to store his car in a facility occupied and controlled by the management company. This is no different from paying a warehouse company to store your goods in their warehouse. You'd want to look at exactly what was signed between the OP and the management company, but in general in a contract for the storage of goods it will be an implied term that the storage premises will be a safe space for the goods, and will be properly maintained so as to keep it safe. We need to know a bit more about how the leak happened (was is the result of something over which the management company had no control?) but, on the facts we have, I think the OP must have a good arguable case.

maestroamado

I just thought of this. I use Airport car parks on a regular basis... AFAIK if the car park keep the keys while the car is parked they are liable for damage, otherwise at own risk... May be worth while for the OP be aware of this...

patrickps

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

I've had the car looked at, it was limestone deposits from the roof of the car park that has built up and caused the damage. I'm being quoted 500 quid or so to have it removed.

I left the car in the same spot for about 2 weeks over Christmas so that's how the limestone managed to stain or mark the car so badly.

cruizer101

Is there actual damage to the paintwork or is it just a buildup of limescale?

If it was just limescale I would have thought it could be removed easily enough with some sort of acid, obviously need to be carful of paintwork but sure there is something can be used.

How extensive is the damage/limescale

coylemj

Eggs for Dinner said:

As for the property owner, he bought Public Liability cover. This protects him for claims against him for NEGLIGENCE. It does not cover accidental damage to other people's property.

I know you work in the insurance business but surely it's not necessary for the OP to prove actual negligence in a case like this? By 'negligence' I assume you mean a failure to maintain the premises in a fit order. But an invisible pipe could have sprung a leak and caused damage for which the issue surely would be not who was negligent but who bears civil liability for the damage.

Say a freak tornado hits my estate and rips tiles from my roof which then smash into my neighbour's car and wreck it. Was I negligent? Probably not but I'm pretty sure my house insurance will accept liability and pay up.

Or is there an onus on the plaintiff in a claim for damage to prove that the owner of the property was actually negligent i.e. did not exercise proper care care and/or failed to maintain the property to the extent that this event would not have happened?

Eggs For Dinner

To claim against another party you must show negligence.

As for your example about the tornado ripping slates off your roof, no, you are not negligent and your insurer will not pay for any damage or injury caused by the slates. Leaving insurance aside. Why would you think you were responsible for the effects of such a severe weather event?

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118453660#Comment_118453660

I think if you do a bit of googling you may a solution... saying that i did something to a window with a chemical....

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118457131#Comment_118457131

Negligence or fault? As another poster said, the MC may not be responsible for damage caused to a car by someone else using the car park, but it was a fault in their pipe work which caused the damage to the op’s car. The op has an expectation that his/her car would be safe from damage caused by a defect in the car park structure. The MC may not be aware of the faulty pipe work, but it is their pipe work which caused the damage.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118457131#Comment_118457131

I take your point. I'm probably suffering from the modern malaise which says that if you suffer damage to your property then the principle of 'it must be somebody else's fault' must apply. Which is not always the case.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458424#Comment_118458424

That, in itself, doesn't make the property owner liable

coylemj

In the case of an apartment block, is the management company even liable if there is negligence? Couldn't the MC say that they exist merely to keep the common areas clean, paint the exterior every few years and maintain the lights and smoke alarms on the landings and stairwells. Pipes in the car park? Nothing to do with us!

Or suppose there's no management company or it's insolvent, who do you sue then?