Hedge/ditch removal and replacement

poker--addict

About 30-40M of road hedge needs to be removed and will be replaced with a lower maintained hedge.

Current hedge is your typical country roadside hedge with a few trees and some lighter stuff beneath them.

given the intention is to replace with more trees and hedge presumably no permission is needed to cut the trees and pull out the ditch?

Then I am wondering am I likely to get someone to do it who wants the trees, rather than me paying someone…?

looksee

Are you saying that the hedge 'needs to be removed' because you want a lower maintenance hedge? And are you talking about replacing with a monoculture hedge (an entirely laurel hedge for example?) If so you are not likely to get much support here as it is not helpful to wildlife and the environment to do this. Much better to work on the hedgerow and improve it. Replant bits of it as needed.

Edit: I have just seen that you intend to replace with a mix of trees and hedgerow, which would be a better solution. Its very hard to absolutely establish the situation for hedgerow but trees are definitely a problem.

Are you a farmer? In this case there are lots of implications for grants/permissions etc that could be relevant. I am assuming you are not a farmer.

Otherwise you cannot just cut down trees, see information here https://crann.ie/trees/legislation/

poker--addict

Hi

Have been reading up about the trees and what’s allowed. I do note the Gardaí seem to be involved in policing some of the licensing stuff- what a complete waste of Gardai resource!

i am not a farmer. It’s a hedge grove in front of property that was never managed (or knocked when house was built) and so is long since outgrown any ability to manage, to the point it’s not just untidy but also a hinderance to lines of sight for exiting onto road.

Jim_Hodge

You need planning permission.

poker--addict

Jim would you have a reference for that please? I did see a council approval system in one place I read but it wasn’t PP.

poker--addict

https://www.meath.ie/council/council-services/roads-and-travel/road-network-management/hedge-verge-and-tree-cutting

Nothing required if hedge/tree within 100 feet of building. where that isn’t applicable council have policy to approve on road safety grounds if relevant too.

Returning to main query, do people typically cut these out for little or nothing if they get the wood?

if there wasn’t much in the way of firewood, what sort of cost is involved.

cap.in.hand.

You certainly wouldn't need pp to remove hedging but the ditch that the hedge is growing out of may need pp to remove it ...but that doesn't seem to be your intention to remove ditch ...just to put new hedging into ditch after cleaning it up.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398090#Comment_118398090

Been there myself and the council refused permission.

embraer170

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397815#Comment_118397815

I’m probably in the minority but I find these unmanaged hedges beautiful. They are basically Ireland’s rainforest in terms of contribution to local biodiversity, when almost everything else is intensively farmed (or monoculture non native forests). In % terms, hedgerows are also being depleted at a much faster rate than the rainforest.

elperello

OP

You mentioned a house being built.

You probably should look up the conditions attached to the planning permission.

There is usually one to cover design of entrance and roadside ditch removal.

embraer170

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398302#Comment_118398302

That is one of the totally ridiculous things about the good planning guides issued by many county councils. Very often, these guides mention keeping the natural hedgerow/ditch (see page 15 of the Kerry CoCo guide for example: http://docstore.kerrycoco.ie/KCCWebsite/planning/house.pdf). These same councils then issue the majority of planning permissions with a condition to remove the roadside ditch.

looksee

If you do go ahead, and if you find someone who wants the timber, how will you deal with the brash, which no-one will want? It will have to be removed. Some of it could be shredded for mulch but there will be a lot of rubbish too. There is not likely to be much ditch left after tree roots and hedge and brambles have been removed, the whole job will be much messier than you anticipate, unless you know some useful people you will need to get people with equipment and knowledge to take it out. Do you have lawn? Because that could be damaged, you can't fell trees into the road, and you have to get it done before 1st March so the ground is likely to be soft. You will probably have to make accommodation for felling beside a road (though in fairness I have seen some pretty casual approaches to dropping branches where-ever they land, road or otherwise, around here).

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398338#Comment_118398338

Point taken but the OP is going to spend a lot of money so he might as well make sure the job is PP compliant.

embraer170

This was more of a farming context, but there was a recent thread in the farming/forestry forum about hedgerow management. The last few posts include some photos of a hedgerow, which in the end was trimmed rather than fully removed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058195384/overhanging-trees-in-fields/p1

mickward

I don't mean to annoy anyone and all the info above is great.

I only have a few posts in Boards, but I mean to say no one even remotely tried to help the OP or answer the question they asked, some even warned the OP that cutting down tress will damage their lawn!

I mean seriously people should have listened to their mammy "if you got nothing good to say, say nothing at all".

david65

Well said

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448923#Comment_118448923

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448923#Comment_118448923

Everyone tried to help the OP. He was asking, at the end, if anyone would take out the hedge for the timber, and generally the answer is no.

But in the meantime this is the gardening forum and it goes against the grain to help people just destroy things, while at the same time creating issues that they had not apparently thought of. There's no point telling him that someone (who?) will take out his hedge in return for the timber without pointing out that the timber is the least of his worries, the resulting uprooted, non-usable bushes and brash will be a serious consideration. Should we ignore the fines that might be slapped on him for taking out trees (we don't know the exact circumstances)? Even if someone might strip out the trees and take the timber they are not going to clean up the rest of it for him. We don't have a picture of the hedge so its hard to see why anyone would strip out mature trees to replace them with young ones. And if you think that a row of trees and hedge can be taken out by machinery without damaging a lawn, then you evidently have never had garden work done, especially by someone who is only in it for the 'free' timber.

How would 'saying nothing' be appropriate to the ethos of this forum?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448923#Comment_118448923

And what is your advice to the OP?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448923#Comment_118448923

He asked about permission and got it. In fact he got Good advice all round. What have you to add yourself?

poker--addict

well this thread came to life.

OP is happy for engagement - the forum struggles in many places since its "update".

I would say that saying i was "destroying" things is a bit harsh, true but harsh, given my intent to remove 30 metres and plant 100m.

Points on permissions/licenses, all interesting.

Anyone want a few average trees for some top notch firewood? :D

magicbastarder

what's the legal situation with cutting back to the ground - essentially coppicing the existing hedge - and letting it grow back?

if it's a well established hedge, i would assume you'd have to get diggers in to dig out the roots anyway, otherwise it'll grow back regardless - and this might restore the manageability you want, and would probably grow back faster than a new hedge anyway as the plants are well established.

MacDanger

Only partly related but maybe someone here can advise - I've recently received planning permission which mandates that we remove a significant section of hedging (~60m). In practice, we'll probably try to minimise this but we'll definitely have to remove a good section of it and set back the new boundary by a few metres.

Rather than building a wall/fence, I was hoping that it would be possible to build a clay "mound" on which we could plant some native hedging (mainly hawthorn & blackthorn as that's what's currently there) and let the rest grow wild so that it will eventually merge in with the existing hedging. Any advice or resources on how to build/structure such a clay mound?

looksee

I think (and I will stand corrected here) that the clay mounds that used be built and are referred to as ditches (to the confusion of all English people!) are based on a ridge of stone - a rough stone wall - that was then covered in soil and sometimes faced with tidy stones. Probably the result of clearing stones off the field to some extent. I imagine most of the older hedges were then mostly self seeded, but maybe they were planted. There is a theory that you can calculate the age of old hedges by the number of species in them, which suggests self seeding.

Anyway there is a website here https://devonhedges.org/management-advice/new-hedges/ which discusses what you are looking to do, its in Devon but the principle looks the same.

One thing you might consider is going through the hedge before and during the time it is ripped out and rescuing any young bushes or trees, lift them out and heel them into a patch of soil somewhere out of the way. Keep them watered during dry weather and replant either before March or next Autumn. You are quite likely to find hawthorn seedlings especially. Even biggish hawthorns (not enormous trees) might rally if you cut them down to a few young shoots and keep an eye on them. I had to dig up a wild fuchsia from the garden, the stem was ancient and largely rotten, but I put a couple of huge lumps of root into another site and they look as though they might come on. Nothing to lose!

MacDanger

Yes, we call them ditches around here but I didn't want to confuse people!! Thanks for the advice

looksee

My garden is surrounded on three and a half sides by that kind of ditch; in some (most) places you can see some stone facing among the shrubs/ferns/ivy that covers it, another stretch is earth but the rabbits have made a block of flats of it, working between the stones. We are trying to grow new stuff - hawthorn, mountain ash - along the top as it had nothing but briars and two very decrepit hawthorns on it. The rabbits don't appreciate the roof garden though and its an on-going battle.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452566#Comment_118452566

Only someone local would be suited to cutting and taking the firewood, not much point asking here. Someone might do it if they're at a loose end over the winter period but there's work in it. Requires putting the back into the job, a bit of graft and handling of timber, clearing etc. You might do it yourself?

mickward

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451497#Comment_118451497

My Advise is we are all here for a short time, if it floats your boat to make your life easier by replacing a hedge with something easier to manage good one you and you have my support, if i was asked i would advise to ensure that the local ecology is not affected by the transition, but as he is removing hedgerow and replacing it will only be effected for a short period until re-establishment is presented, better that all the concrete pollution and timber railway lines people plant over the countryside.

Now can i ask you to re read the initial post, the OP did not ask about permission, he did in fact presume "no permission needed", this is rhetorical.

OP questions was it commonplace for people to cut down the hedgerow for other people and accept the resultant firewood as payment.

Thank you and goodnight.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467203#Comment_118467203

Not sure what our problem is. I answered on his presumption regarding permission. But carry on. It's no skin off my nose either way.

Zverklez

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