Engineers Ireland Subscription - what do we get, really?

Eclectic Dan

That time of year again - the IEI fee invoice comes through the letterbox. And again, I ask myself what benefit are we getting from it?

For me, a chartered civil engineer, I'm tied to paying it to maintain the CEng title and my employer pays, so I shouldn't really complain, but it's difficult to see why we're paying.

The civil profession is perpetually in a state of crisis either because of terribly poor pay, poor working conditions or staffing shortages.

I'm open to correction, but in 10 years of paying fees, I struggle to see how IEI have advocated for our profession in any meaningful way. Going to national schools with Lego sets is all well and good, but once students realise that they'll struggle to get a mortgage while working 60 hour weeks, it makes sense to work in almost any other profession.

I understand they're not a union, but maybe that's what we need to be funding, rather than what we're currently getting.

And it goes without saying, but I doubt the director general is struggling to pay the mortgage.

Ay thoughts, or am I being too harsh?

2011

No, I don't think you are being too harsh. You are not alone, I work for a large engineering consultancy and despite the fact that the cost of membership is paid for very few of my colleagues are members of EI.

I think that EI courses were prohibitively expensive, which is disappointing as some of their courses look worthwhile. EI membership fee is also too costly. Despite the fact that I felt that EI in general did not provide value for money, I was a member for well over a decade as I had a vague plan of going through the chartership process with them at some stage. Besides, the cost of membership was covered by my employer. Having used several of the IET's excellent publications in the course of my work and having attended a number of their interesting presentations in Dublin, I felt that the the IET were much more relevant to my discipline (E & I engineer).

I was then approached by a Fellow in the IET who offered to mentor me through the IET's CEng process, this was the final straw for me, in 2020 I left EI and joined the IET. I haven't looked back.

Regarding going to schools to promote STEM / engineering, I think this is important (not all engineering disciplines are paid as poorly as civil engineering). It is something that I have done and continue to do without any support from EI (I am a volunteer with Junior Achievements Ireland).

funkey_monkey

Just had the same thought myself. I pay my own fees and I'm not sure that I've ever really obtained anything tangible from the membership.

As said above, courses are very expensive and very few relate to my profession.

Is everyone filling in their cpd for each year in the online system?

2011

CptMonkey

I was with them years ago. Back in the boom and a few years into the crash. They did nothing for us out of work , no courses no help with cvs etc so I let them go. Money down the drain. A union would be better

Brian CivilEng

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118416989#Comment_118416989

In fairness, while out of work in 2009/2010 I felt I really got value for my Engineers Ireland membership. I paid the unwaged rate for membership, they hosted weekly coffee mornings for unemployed engineers in Clyde Rd, and they used offer unfilled places on courses to us last minute for free. I gained two Level 6 certs out of them that year. There was also a pretty useful seminar on preparing CVs, and I was briefly assigned a mentor to aide my chartership application. There was very little work to be had at the time, but they kept my skills current.

CptMonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427582#Comment_118427582

Was most of that Dublin based stuff?

Wildly Boaring

Wait until any of ye actually have an issue and have to deal with them.

Their complaint procedure took 2 years when some asshat made a spurious one.

Deleted all the mishaps they had, as would be identifiable. But there were plenty. Including one absolute doozy.

Have to agree with several of the points above. My employer pays. Has to as we need the chartership titles. The courses are ridiculously expensive. Don't think I've ever had the cheek to ask my employer to put me on one.

I see Ervia won project of the year for a sewerage project that actually made the EPA hitlist after it was complete and working for a couple years.

And yes I record my 37 hours CPD. Not that any of it is EI.

Eclectic Dan

The only thing I've ever seen them really support people through is the chartership process, which:

1. Simply increases their fee intake and 'ties' us into paying

2. Is largely supported by voluntary members.

How much of the Sub fee is to fund such a ridiculous HQ location which no member can afford to live within 90 miles of?

Any of the CPD events which seem remotely worthwhile are far too expensive. From EI's 2020 account, their income from such events seems to be double the related expenditure.

The profession is in crisis and someone needs to make a stand.

Brian CivilEng

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118436542#Comment_118436542

Yes. No idea if they had anything organised elsewhere.

godtabh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437775#Comment_118437775

Up until last year I lived within 10km of it!

I worked for engineers Ireland during the down turn. Left when I could. CEng since 2009. Paid some of my membership myself. Employer now pays it When I worked for EI, they wouldn’t pay for it. Threatened to join the ICE and the finally buckled.

A lot of what EI do isn’t very visible to individuals but some of the things they do get right

Education / outreach

-Conversion programs during the down turn

-Getting fees classified as none BIK item

-Getting the teachers council to recognise some engineering courses to allow unemployment engineers move into teaching

-The ability for us to work abroad (not just the UK/EU).

-I’m sure there are others

The €310 has not direct benefits to me but there are benefit of being a member.

Markus Antonius

I remember being peeved as a student/new graduate getting this almost threatening letter with a "You need to pay this or else!!" vibe about it. Or else what? I used to ask myself.

10 years on as a mechanical engineer, never paid the membership, still waiting for the repercussions.

2011

@Eclectic Dan

Agreed, my biggest gripe is the cost of worthwhile CPD's with only a small discount for members.

@godtabh

"Getting fees classified as none BIK item" This was in EI's interest more than their member's, their demise would have be rapid without this.

"Getting the teachers council to recognise some engineering courses to allow unemployment engineers move into teaching" This sounds worthwhile. Can you provide any details or links to this?

"The ability for us to work abroad (not just the UK/EU)" Can you expand on this?

godtabh

BIK was an issue for everyone.

the teachers council thing was back in 2011 I think so no links for that.

look up all the accords that EI have I.e the Washington Accord on their website.

Outkast_IRE

As a building services engineer i feel i get even less out of them than a Civil or Structural Engineer would.

Engineers Ireland is a jobs for the boys and girls factory - Look at alot of the people who get the full time paid positions, its not done on industry standing or competence its alot of people who were helping with Young Engineers and then organising regional events etc.

The only reason i am a member is because my company places a massive importance on obtaining chartership to move to positions of senior engineer and beyond. But even for that i am going to progress my chartership with CIBSE as they are actually worth my subscription and they have a mutual recognition agreement with EI for chartership.

If my company didnt make a big deal out of it (and pay for it) i would drop them in the morning.

Last year there was a position on publicjobs.ie for a position for a energy/building services engineer with the courts services rough job spec was

8 Years Experience

Chartered

Manages People

Project Management Experience

Salary offered €35k - Bottom of the scale only -

Complaints were made by several parties to Engineers Ireland and their response was its not their role to tackle employers offers or salaries. At that moment i realised how useless they were.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574098#Comment_118574098

BIK was an issue for everyone, but you have to acknowledge that it was in EI's interest to have this issue resolved.

Yes, it is good that EI are a signatory to the Washington Accord as are so many other organizations (such as ECUK). A number of my colleagues work on projects outside of UK/EU from Ireland as well as in those countries and I am pretty sure they are not all EI members.

Wildly Boaring

Love to know about the teaching council one.

Have two friends looked into it and were going to have to take the same route into teaching as anyone else with a degree

Outkast_IRE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118574174#Comment_118574174

A few of my colleagues have converted from Civil / Structural Engineering to teaching and they went back and did the PME for 18 months as their route in.

Not aware of any shortcut.

Its usually Maths you are assessed as being suitable to teach. They seem happy enough with the change the stress of teaching and the Stress of engineering / project management are not equal. Teaching is a tough gig too , but engineering is thankless and poorly renumerated.

Eclectic Dan

We haven't seen one solid argument in favour. Washington Accord at a stretch I suppose.

Cutting through the noise and PR BS, all 95% of members want is representation to avocate for proper pay and/or conditions for its members. I'd happily pay double for that. EI doesn't seem to want to go there.

godtabh

Join a union.

Mirafiori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118582963#Comment_118582963

Exactly. That's not what EI are. It is not surprising people are disappointed if that's what they think they are joining.

Many people do not go down the Chartered route outside Civil Engineering, but having a degree (or degrees) which have the accreditation for that brings credibility in itself, particularly among other engineers. The accreditation processes that take place in Engineering departments create a pressure to maintain standards and graduates are the beneficiaries of that. Why else would colleges do it?

Eclectic Dan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118582963#Comment_118582963

A fair comment. Is such a thing available?