Solar for Dummies.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358615#Comment_120358615

Not sure about best plan but AFAIK once it gets activated that's it, you are stuck on smart plans so don't go on a smart plan without doing your homework. Some discussion on plans here. https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058094040/pv-feed-in-tariff#latest

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358650#Comment_120358650

How is it activated?

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358660#Comment_120358660

By going on a smart plan AFAIK. Others here who went through it will know better though.

Fake Tales

Beginners question...

I'm trying to understand my hourly power consumption to decide if solar is for me or I need a battery.

I don't have a smart meter just a D/N one. Should I wait / try and get one for better data?

If not what's the best way to do measure? i See the plugs the measure and I might pick one up but not sure if I could get the connected to my washing machine, dishwasher or air to water unit.

I have seen the Owl Electricity Monitor mentioned in a video, does that work well in Ireland. Looks like you clamp it to the wires in the box. Will it give me hourly data over say a week?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358837#Comment_120358837

Yes it will give you down to the minute consumption and a instant power reading

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358837#Comment_120358837

Or just open the meter box and record the numbers over 24 hours.... Do it every day for a week and u kinda know.

Fake Tales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120359410#Comment_120359410

As in read it every 2 hrs for the day? I feel I would be too aware of my electricity usage.

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120359892#Comment_120359892

Just measure day rate hours and night rate hours. Work out if you can save by load shifting. If not maybe work out annual usage and then size a system of panels based on your roof and the solar calculator in the faq thread.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358380#Comment_120358380

Revenue have VERY strong legislation to gather information where they need it. I’ve no idea if it covers this particular scenario, but I’d be surprised if it doesn’t.

smax71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357819#Comment_120357819

I'm not sure Revenue would buy that. I've heard of peopl who claimed their rental was unoccupied and yet Revenue taxed them based on deemed rent. I'd be thinking that Revenue could easily adopt a similar approach to FIT and it would be up to the individual to prove otherwise.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366805#Comment_120366805

I've heard of deemed rent, but I am pretty certain that Ireland doesn't tax based on deemed rent. Can't see how deemed rent is relevant here anyway. Nobody is saying they are not getting paid for their export. Deemed or otherwise 😂

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366916#Comment_120366916

Kind of nearly irrelevant now we know each person on the electricity bill gets a €200 exemption so put a few names on it and you would need to be exporting massive amounts to be caught for any tax. I know not everyone can do that but a lot of us can.

ColemanY2K

Have seen over on the quote thread talk about getting the nc6 in before the new rules come in in May. The nc6 asks for the mprn number. My issue is we're a few weeks away from first fix on our gaf. At what point will esbn advise the mprn number? Please don't tell me it's not until the meter is installed. I've googled but can't find the answer.

jkforde

I'd ring ESBN, the one time I did I was very pleasantly surprised by the helpfulness and friendliness of the support agent

gg3390

Hello,

Spent most of yesterday evening reading through this thread, and learned (or at least read) a lot about solar PV. I have some questions, if anybody has time to comment. I'll state at the outset I've no experience or knowledge with solar PV, but I do understand electronics and electrics pretty well.

I've been thinking about going down the DIY route, and installing my own panels. As I said I understand the electrical side pretty well, plus neighbour is a registered electrician and would be able to connect and sign off on any install from that perspective. I think the questions I have might be better suited to this thread, rather than the DIY thread, and hopefully I'm correct here - if not please let me know.

1. I understand that from May, ESB are changing the rules regarding grid-connect PV, and it would be better if I had submitted an NC6 form before this deadline so as to be able to install a 6kw inverter, as opposed to a 5.5kw. If I'm considering a DIY route, and am thinking of buying the equipment piecemeal, is it possible to now complete an NC6 form, without having the equipment bought or to hand? I was considering purchasing a Solis 6kw hybrid inverter, as I might have access to UPS battery banks down the line (unsure if these would be suitable for this or not, but at least with the hybrid inverter I'd have the option to add batteries in any case, be they ups types or not). Regardless, it would be the summer before I could consider buying and installing the equipment in any case.
2. I'm thinking of erecting the panels on a south-facing (approx 35degree) single storey garage, that is behind and to the north of my house. The early morning sun would not be as good as I would hope as there is a lrge hedge and a neighbours garage on the opposite side of my garage, but once the sun rises somewhat, should have a decent footprint on this roof. One concern I have here is the potential wind loading on the roof. It's a single storey garage, and the rafters are not of the dwellinghouse size, but perfectly adequate for the garage roof, which is slated (man-made slates). Roof is easily accessible though. Assuming a roofer (the installation of the panel runner I'd not be comfortable with) installs the runner, is there any potential for roof uplift due to wind, and/or additional structural loading due to the panels? I understand panels could be 20kg or more each, and I'd be thinking of installing 12 of them - 6 on each string of the inverter. I also note the requirement to keep panels in 500mm from edge so as to minimise any potential loads due to wind changes close to the edge of the roof.
3. There is a sub-consumer unit located in this garage, fed from the main MCU in the house via 4core armoured 10sq cable. Ther eis no easy route back to the house to install a separate AC cable from the interter to the house MCU. After discussing with the electrician, he sees no reason why the AC output of the inverter cannot be fed from the garage consumer unit, as he believes the cable already there is perfectly adequate for the potential amperage generated. Would this be an unusual case, or is it an accepted workaround to installing a new cable. All other services, such as CAT6 ethernet and wifi are already available in the garage, so from a monitoring perspective, I'd have no issue.
4. A lot of threads here have mentioned Solis inverters, and these seem to be popular, but what is less clear is what actual solar panel to use. I take it getting the max possible wattage output might be the way to go - ie 350-400w panels, monocrystalline, bearing in mind the open-circuit limits of the inverter and no. of panels installed, plus, what I understand to be the accepted over-subscription of panels (circa 8kwp for a 6kw inverter). Have I understood this correctly?
5. Assuming my thoughts are correct, are there any brand or model of panel I should look for, or indeed any specific types to avoid?

I apologise if any of these questions are silly, or make no sense, and I welcome any thoughts. Thanks for the most helpful, if not daunting, information already presented here on the topic.

Kind regards

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375724#Comment_120375724

Some here submitted the NC6 months in advance but it seems there have been some changes in relation to that so you need to find out what has changed. As far as panels go as some here say the best panel is the cheapest panel but just make sure they are Tier 1 panels. The higher wattage usually means the panels are bigger so not always the best way to go depending on how many you can fit.

As far as the 10sq cable goes I think it is sufficient but others here will know for sure. The inverters do handle more than they are rated for but again that is a question for someone else to guide you on.

slave1

10sq is more than enough unless it is an outrageous long cable run

gg3390

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120376572#Comment_120376572

Thanks for your input - appreciate the time. I'll await any further comments.

gg3390

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377348#Comment_120377348

max 10m, so should be good to feed inverter AC output to the house via the garage sub-MCU so. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

gg3390

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375724#Comment_120375724

As an addendum to the multitude of previous questions, specifically against the q on the NC6 form, if I were to set the inverter to never export, and only match house load, do I still need to submit an NC6 to ESBN?

I fear this board will be getting loads of questions from me - I apologise in advance.

olympicweights

I'm thinking of adding some more panels to my existing setup - so I have a few questions for those in the know to see if it is doable.

I currently have 12x395 Jinko panels south facing (52 degree roof) and 8x395 Jinko panels east facing (45 degree roof) for a total of 7.9kWp on a Solis 6kW inverter.

Now that west is starting to kick in I am wondering if I should add some panels to a 5 degree west facing roof on a pergola I built last summer. It has a corrugated iron roof and access is easy.

Theoretically I could add maybe 6 panels connected up with the east string (8 panels). That would be 14 panels in total (open circuit voltage of panels is 36.9, so 36.9*14=516.6V so <600V). Both wouldn't get solar at the same time so the total should never get near the maximum for the inverter, but given the 5 degree pitch the roof should benefit from the south as well as west.

So the first question is optimisers, given the east-west split are optimisers required on all east and west panels for them to perform correctly? The west roof isn't shaded but when the sun comes around towards west the east will start to shade. Fitting optimisers to the new panels isn't a problem but adding them to the east panels might be as I hope to do as much as possible myself and an extra €400 on optimisers isn't ideal coupled with them being another part to fail in the future.

If I can overcome the optimiser scenario is there a particular way that these extra panels need to be connected to the east panels? I presume I need a shut off switch close to the new panels (this could go under pergola roof) and then feed in the cables to the inverter location. Can these cables then be connected in to the inverter with the east cables?

Maybe different connectors will be required at the inverter etc but for now I just want to explore the viability of adding more panels and if that is possible I can delve into the other details then.

Thanks for reading.

bullit_dodger

If you have different orientations of panels on a string, you'll need optimizers on all the panels on that string. That's a pretty low Voc on those panels. Most of them are in the 40's. Meaning that it's rare that you can safely get more than 12 panels on a string. 13 is usually the exception. The fact that you can get 14 is super rare. Have a look though at the current limits, you will be pushing your inverter pretty hard. You might be limited there on the current side.

I'm not a huge fan of optimizers if I'm honest, but this one keeps coming up. Optimizers are less likely to fail than your string inverter. They operate at 40v as it's on the panel level, as opposed to 400-500v on the string inverter. Most of then are guaranteed for 25 years while string inverters are usually guaranteed for 10 years or so.....and they fail "passively", as in if they do fail, they fail as if they weren't in the system.

That said, I'd have a look at micro-inverters. Would seem that you might be pushing the boundaries of your old installation hard. Micro-inverters could enable you to add as many as you like. You got a battery in your existing installation?

Aside: Not sure you have gone through your first summer yet, but you will (unless you are doing HEAVY use) probably have WAY more power than you need in summer months with your existing 8kwp

olympicweights

Didn't expect a reply that quick, thanks! Yes only new to solar but it gets addictive 😁

I've a 5kW purdrive battery and a 50kW EV to soak up a decent amount. FIT will hopefully add up over summer months and will be adding wife's name to the electricity bill.

I'll check out the current limits on the inverter. The installers did mention 12 panels max on the south facing string so maybe current related more than voltage.

With an east west split I presume it would be highly unlikely for all panels to be maxed out so possibly safer in that case as often east/west is oversized?

bullit_dodger

I'm East/West myself, and while generally that's true about they wouldn't be maxed out at the same time.....in the summer months (May-June-July) the sun is over head at 70 deg from the horizon and beating down pretty straight on both the east west panels at noon. That's the case that you'd have to worry about. The middle of Feb, Oct or Dec not so much as the sun is lower - but give it another few weeks and mid April you'll be clipping that inverter for sure :-)

I'd say you could be looking at 50-60Kwhr/day on sunny days from May-July with your existing setup.

olympicweights

I think I might be better off leaving it as is then. On my best day last week (30kWp) the inverter was under pressure for a good chunk of the day, I can only imagine if I was lucky enough to get 50+.

No point in replacing the inverter prematurely for marginal gains either side of peak summer months.

Thanks again for the advice ☀️

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406725#Comment_120406725

Inverters are well up for that task, they also usually come with a very long warranty. Wouldn't let that put you off. But in your case I would also go with a separate inverter (or micro inverters) for your extra panels, simply because it's cheaper and less hassle (than to add 14 optimizers)

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406725#Comment_120406725

Ohh you -will- get 50kWh/day for sure with that setup! Not everyday mind you, but come mid-april onwards you'll be in the 40's regularly enough. That's the problem with solar, it's feast/famine in summer/winter because we're so far north. I've friends living in South Africa and while they have less panels they get a much more stable production through the year as they are 35 deg south, the sun is much more overhead for the majority of the year

olympicweights

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406811#Comment_120406811

I will probably hold off for now and see what the summer brings.

However, if I added another inverter and ran the extra panels to it how does this tie in with the existing system. I presume excess cant go to the battery as the inverter won't be hybrid? Can Eddi and Zappi connect to this? Apologies if there are basic questions but still very new to this!

unkel

You only need one hybrid, as the new micro inverters will just contribute to your house's net "export" that the hybrid will see. For the same reason eddi and zappi will work perfectly fine. You can use a myenergi CT clamp on the new inverter so it gets reported into your app

simpsimp

I understand that from May, ESB are changing the rules regarding grid-connect PV, and it would be better if I had submitted an NC6 form before this deadline so as to be able to install a 6kw inverter, as opposed to a 5.5kw.

I can't seem to find a reference for this, but would be interested to hear more..?