Generator for power cuts

Cal04

Thinking of buying one in case of power cuts. Something to keep some lights on, plug in the freezer, maybe tv. No idea how much it would cost, would it be easy to set it up myself. Any advice please

2011

The cost will depend on the size, quality and make of generator. I would spend at least €1000

How easy it would be to set up depends on what you want. If you are happy with simply plugging an extension lead into it I’m sure you could manage thy yourself. If you want a generator change over switch wired into your distribution board with a generator plug attached then you will need an electrician. Expect to pay at least €1000

Cal04

Thank you

tech

this are a good generator, when they comeback into stock

https://www.ept-irl.com/products/pramac-px8000-115-230v-8000w-petrol-portable-generator-w-avr-electric-start-emaptpr-px8000.html?name=px+8000&type=simple

Cal04

Thank you. What exactly would you need to do with this, sorry you can tell I haven't a clue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318444#Comment_118318444

You don't need to go to that level( that's more of a professional 'top shelf' lady) for domestic/ emergency use. ......I have the PRAMAC px4000 which comes in around the €600 mark. More than enough power for fridge freezer, tv, 3 lights & an electric kettle. Obviously, electric showers & tumble dryer are a big no-no during outage. As 2011 said..... it's up to you what you want to do once in situ..... Obviously the easiest option is to run a lead/ sockets to house once running. I have mine set up with a 90second delay insofar that she kicks in once power is down 90 secs. She'll run for 12hrs on a 'half' load. It's vital to test / run generator every few weeks ( say for half an hour)& keep topped up with clean petrol.

Cal04

OK, so am I getting this right. I could have that in the shed where the fridge freezer is and plug that in then run a lead into the house where I could plug in TV, a lamp or two in the same room and the kettle?

Cal04

Would a microwave be too much power for it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322290#Comment_118322290

That's more or less it.....remember you're not dealing with an " infinite" supply.......say the PRAMAC px4000 has a MAX load of 3000w....... you don't really want to 'load to the MAX, best not going more than 80% ( say 2400w in this case). So say a kettle is 1700w & a microwave is 750w..... that's you @ top loading.. now, boiling akettle is obviously an 'eater' whereas a flat screen tv is only a fraction of that.....its all about 'balancing'

Cal04

Oh I get you. So if it was a bad storm and electricity was out for say, three days, would a refill of petrol do it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322758#Comment_118322758

No, the tank/ petrol will last ( using the PRAMAC 4000 as an example) roughly 14hrs........ but this depends on the "load"...... if it was just the fridge freezer running It'll last roughly 16hrs...... but if you have a full load ( 2400w) sucking, the consumption ( running time)will decrease dramatically.

FishOnABike

If you're trying to cover the chance of multi day power outages I guess you're in a rural location.

Are you in a water scheme or do you have your own well - the surge every time the motor for a pump kicks in would draw a high load which would need to be factored into the generator specification.

Cal04

Yes rural. On a water scheme

tech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118322158#Comment_118322158

HI Ken, how what type of generator have you got? so in the event of a power cut your generator auto kicks in after 90 seconds? nice setup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323745#Comment_118323745

I have the PRAMAC px 4000 which is perfect/ adequate for my needs...... basically it's for emergencies/ power cuts. I got this one in Enniskillen in 2018 for £430, they retail circa €600 in the Republic. It has 11Ltr petrol tank which will give a reliable 8hrs @ 80% 'load'. So the MAX load is 3000w, I wouldn't 'push' her more than 2400w constant. As another poster mentioned if you're on a water scheme ( dependant on power to drive pump) that'll add a new variable to the size/ wattage you'll need. I set it up with a 90sec delay which ISN'T 'fast' enough for the house alarm ....... so if there is an outage the alarm will 'ping' the phones before genny kicks in but, other than that, 90seconds is good as you don't want genny to engage if it's just a surge/blip.

Just a couple of quick tips.......

Every time you fill the petrol also CHECK the oil..

Fridge/freezer....... "A" rated machines use practically no power.....if you don't open& close the doors....try & open & close the door(s) as infrequently/ quickly as poss when genny is the power source.

Make sure a running genny is WELL ventilated..

tech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327554#Comment_118327554

sounds good, but how does the generator start when the power cuts out? what switches / other items are in place for the auto cut over??

thanks

tech

sounds good, but how does the generator start when the power cuts out? what switches / other items are in place for the auto cut over??

thanks

Irish Steve

Going back over 20 years since mine went in, but the principal will be the same.

Incoming supply is monitored by a Deep Sea Electronics panel, (DSE 52XX series, they've updated it since) which waits for a programmed time to see if ESB comes back, and if it doesn't, it starts the gen set, and when all the parameters (speed, voltage etc) are good, it activates the contactor that brings the generator on line, which also then blocks the ESB supply contactor from closing. That's then live, and the panel monitors for ESB returning, and when it does, mine waits for a minute to make sure it is back and not about to trip again, and then opens the generator contactor, and then brings the ESB contactor back on line after a short (programmed) delay. Mine is set up to let the generator run off load for a minute, just to ensure that everything is cool, and then it automatically stops the generator, and resets the panel back into monitoring mode. My prime mover is diesel, but the same panel will also work with petrol engines, though I'd strongly recommend a diesel set, for economy and noise reasons, most diesel sets run at 1500 rpm, whereas petrol sets tend to be running at 3000 rpm, and that makes a significant difference to the noise levels, and a diesel genset can be run on green diesel (heating oil) which is cheaper than petrol.

The Panel can be set up to monitor voltage, current, generator speed, oil pressure, temperature, and if anything goes out of limits, the generator is dropped off line and shut down. Depending on the size of the motor driving the alternator, it may need to be allowed to run for a short after starting while off load before it goes on load, to settle the speed, and possibly allow for smoke limiting (applicable to diesels in older engines).

The panel can be programmed via a computer (MUCH easier than trying to do it from the front keys of the panel), and it's also possible to monitor all the gen set parameters in real time on the computer, and control it from the computer, including doing a standby run, where the gen set will be started and run as if taking load, but not switched in to the circuit.

A domestic installation is not normally an issue with changeover times, they can be quite short, on a site that had larger motors running, enough time needs to be allowed between the supply going off and restoring the supply for any motors that may be running to come to a stop, to avoid potential surge issues depening on how the motor is controlled.

A larger gen set (mine is 3 phase 30 Kva, goes back to having to be able to run a large computer in the garage over 20 years ago, the prehistoric disc drives needed 6 Kw power to start them) will be able to completely run the house, and things like computers, sat boxes and the like will be fine, and if I want to and we're at home, I tend to put the electric immersion heater on to get a tank of hot water while the generator is on, but that's personal choice.

The DSE panel controls everything, the only external devices in the supply circuits are a pair of interlocked contactors that switch ESB or the generator on to the input to the fuseboard, the contactors are wired into the fuseboard in such a way that the main incoming supply goes through the panel main fuse/switch and then up to the contactors before then coming back to the individual bus bars in the fuse board, and there is a similar fuse/switch on the generator to protect the supply line from that direction. In my case, everything can be run from the generator, if you're getting a set that will not run the entire house, then the contactors and existing panel will need to be updated to separate the items that will be supplied by the generator, to ensure that there is no way that the generator can back feed into the ESB system. Effectively, you will end up with 2 fuseboard panels, one for the generator supplied circuits, and the second panel for the rest of the house, which will not be supplied by the generator.

The gen set will need to be electric start, and be able to either start at run speed, or have a motor control system that can control the speed accurately, and it will also need an electronic system to shut down. The DSE panel has circuits to manage all of these things. Ideally, you will also have a trickle charger on the battery, as the DSE panel will be constantly live from the 12-24 V supply, and it's better to ensure that the starter battery is always fully charged.

Hope that helps. And yes, I don't have a large computer any more, but as the complete installation is effectively all paid for, I've kept it, for the occasions when for whatever reason ESB goes walkabout, and with some of the issues coming down the line, I'm not about to get rid of it any time soon. We're in an urban area, but still had a 3 hour plus outage one evening recently, so we were very happy to be able to carry on as normal, a few litres of heating oil is a small price to pay for the comfort of everything working.