A person's debts when they die

I was wondering if a person's debts get covered from their estate when they die? And if so, does the statute of limitations have any affect on the debts that are covered?

LawBoy2018

Why do you ask?

In general debts are paid from the estate. Statute of Limitations apply or don't apply. The death would be irrelevant.

Credit Union loans usually are paid off by insurance rather than the estate.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222068#Comment_118222068

Thanks. Is there legislation covering this? What happens if a debt hasn't been paid in ten years and the person dies. Does it still come from the estate?

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222218#Comment_118222218

If the debt is still valid, then yes. The executor will have a duty to discharge it.

Donald Trump

6 year limit for trying to claim money owed. If you gave someone 10k 20 years ago, said nothing since, and rocked up to their executor looking for it back I don't think you can get anything.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222279#Comment_118222279

I thought so. I don't see why the statute of limitations wouldn't apply

Almost everything said in this thread about the Statute of Limitations is completely wrong.

There are special rules about the Statute of Limitations when someone dies. They are complex and fact-dependent.

Do not take legal advice on the internet.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223517#Comment_118223517

So could it give you more????

If I gave you 10k 10 years ago and said nothing about it since, my understanding is that I can't suddenly try to bring you to court tomorrow and expect to succeed in an action to recover that because 6 years has passed. Are you saying that if I wait til next year, after you (hypothetically) die, then I could try to recover that from your estate? I wouldn't have thought that you could

I'm interested to know. This isn't legal advice I'm asking. Just hypotheticals. Obviously many things depend on specific details.

http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/civil-actions-and-death/

Have a read OP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223614#Comment_118223614

Your example is somewhat confusing and this is an area where even a hypothetical requires very specific details to give a remotely intelligent answer.

As Chinese whospers has rightly said, read that guide on McMahon Legal's website. It doesn't cover everything but it's not bad.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224019#Comment_118224019

You said "Almost everything said in this thread about the Statute of Limitations is completely wrong.".

I'd be grateful if you could clarify if you were including in that my statement that

6 year limit for trying to claim money owed. If you gave someone 10k 20 years ago, said nothing since, and rocked up to their executor looking for it back I don't think you can get anything.

Is that completely wrong?

The 6 year limit is a general maximum limit in tort. Other provisions may have lower limits but they will be at most 6 years. That is my understanding. You may end up with less than 6 years but you won't end up with more. And a persons death cannot extend any limit. It could only decrease it. My interpretation of the OPs question was for an already long outstanding debt. They seemed to confirm that with their reply to mine. There were no details but it was not legal advice I was giving anyway.

My post simply tells them that if it is more than 6 years already then they won't get anything regardless. I didn't say under what conditions they would get anything.

OP, for your own curiosity, back in they day, they would publish notices in the paper about people who died and alerting debtors to make claims on the estate etc!

Peregrinus

The answer to the OP's question is going to depend (among other things) on the kind of debt - how did it arise?

Take a simple informal loan. If I led you €100 on terms that you will pay it back when I ask you to, a cause of action on which I can sue you for recovery generally only arises when I make the demand. In that case the limitation period (which is likely to be six years) starts to run on the day I make the demand. It is irrelevant when the loan was advanced. So, yeah, I could wait 20 years before asking for repayment, and still have six more years to sue you.

If a loan carries interest, the limitation period for each instalment of interest runs from when that instalment fell due. So, even if the recovery of the principal sum has become statute-barred, I can still sue you for the last six years' instalments of interest. And of course I will be able to sue you for future-accruing instalments of interest. So, at least in theory, you could end up paying interest indefinitely on the loan; the only way to end this will be to repay the principal.

So, there isn't a simple one-size-fits-all answer as to when you rely on the statute of limitations to walk away from a loan or other contract debt; it's going to depend on the nature of the debt and the terms of the contract.

In general, the death of the debtor may shorten the limitation period - even if I would still have had four or five years to chase you, when you die I only have two years to chase your estate - but I don't think it will extend or revive it. If the debt is already statute-barred, I don't think I can recover from your estate now that you have died. But this is a hugely complex area with many twists and tweaks, so never say "never". You'd need to look in detail at the exact nature and circumstances of the claim against the deceased.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224169#Comment_118224169

You asked "Is that completely wrong?"

Yes. It is completely wrong. Peregrinus explained it well.

The simple fact is that almost all statute of limitations questions are complicated and require details to answer at all. Giving broad statements about the Statute's application is a bad idea precisely because there are no general applications of the Statute, only specific applications in specific cases.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225841#Comment_118225841

Fair enough. I stand corrected. There isn't a general maximum limitation of 6 years under tort law. If you gave someone 10k 20 years ago and did nothing about it since, you could rock up to an executor after they died and expect to claim it back

Ya heard it here first folks. Kayroo says so!

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118226462#Comment_118226462

If you gave someone 10k 20 years ago your claim for recovery of the sum is not likely to be a claim in tort, though I suppose it could be, depending on the reasons for which/circumstances in which you gave him the money, and the reason you now claim to be entitled to its return. So the limitations periods applying to tort claims are quite likely to be irrelevant.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118226462#Comment_118226462

Do you think all loans must be repaid in full within 6 years? Because unless that is your position then you have this entirely backwards.

To make this simpler for you: it doesn't matter when you loaned the money, it only matters when the right to recover the full amount accrued to you. So, for example, a term loan may specify the loan must be repaid within 10 years. If, after 10 years, it has not been paid then the loan comes due and the right to sue accrues to you. You then likely have 6 years (or 12 if secured on land) to initiate proceedings to recover that money. If, at any point in those six years, the debt is acknowledged then the clock goes back to the start and you get a fresh six years (or 12 if secured on land). If the borrower dies after the debt has come due then you have 2 years to initiate proceedings. If the debt has not come due then the statute runs agains the estate in the same way as it would have run had the borrower not died. All of that is subject to nearly endless variations and caveats and factual quirks that could change any of those periods.

You're just being given the correct information (that this is way more complicated than you're making out) and I'm not entirely sure why that bothers you so.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238539#Comment_118238539

Try reading it again slowly. You can't just add in your own bits about contracts or loans and liens on land as collateral. The OP is clearly just referring to a casual thing where someone owes someone a few quid. He says "it hasn't been paid in ten years". He is asking about statute of limitations. If the debt was not already due then there would be no need to be worried about statute of limitations.

Regardless, the bit I wrote was not long and referred to a particular general scenario- which I did not state the OP actually fell under. If you have another go there at reading it you might see that I said (emphasis added this time):

If you gave someone 10k 20 years ago, said nothing since, and rocked up to their executor looking for it back I don't think you can get anything.

In that scenario, the lender could indeed claim there was an oral agreement to repay after 20 years but the recipient/borrower would actually be in a strong position to claim it was a gift. Which you could challenge in court as per the below, but would be more difficult if the recipient was deceased and if you had no evidence of doing anything about it in the intervening 20 years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/money-given-to-donegal-couple-by-naive-friend-was-loan-not-gift-court-rules-1.3758773

If the poster did not merely "give the money and say nothing for the 20 years in between" then what I said was not applicable, nor was it intended to be. It was advice on that type of scenario. Not a scenario including land or liens or the price of potatoes. What I said is correct and I don't know why that bothers you so.

Would you suggest maybe that we all make lists of all the people we gave money to over the years in preparation of making claims on their estates? I've a friend who I remember giving 20 quid to here and there on nights out when we were teenagers as he was always broke........if he pre-deceases me I'll be hiring Kayroo to get in there and claim it back for me as an actual loan of unspecified term. 🤣

I sincerely hope you don't work giving people legal advice for a living if, when given information, you use your imagination to add extra bits before coming to a conclusion. There is no need for you to jump in with dismissive condescension - especially when you are wrong. If you post arsehole posts then don't be surprised to meet similar in response.

Peregrinus

No. You're overthinking this, Donald Trump. If I make an informal loan to you with no repayment date specified, that's still a loan, not a gift. I cannot sue you to recover the loan unless I first ask for repayment, because you're under no initial obligation to repay me by any specified date. So, if I want my money back, I start by asking you. That's when my cause of action accrues. I now have another six years to sue you.

Bear in mind that the statue of limitations is raised as a defence. So if I sue you, and you want to plead the statute, the onus is on you to satisfy the court that my cause of action arose more than six years ago. With an informal loan, there will be no documentation, and most likely no written evidence at all of the terms of the loan, so you'll be hard put to prove on the balance of probabilities that there was an agreed repayment date that was more than six years ago. You could argue that I made an oral demand for repayment more than six years ago, but I am likely to deny this; it'll be your word against mine, and the onus of proof is on you. And of course I'll point out that if I had made an oral demand 7 years ago and you didn't repay, I would have sued you; why would I wait for the statute to run out and only then sue? So the events which have happened are more consistent with my version of events than with yours.