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18k heifer

  • 23-11-2021 10:16pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 28 scuggels
    Registered User


    Would anyone enlighten what the rationale is of this heifer.?. What is the purchasers outlook how to claim 18k back, costs of flushing embryos etc.

    Never understood the commerical cattle show scene at them price.



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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Albert Johnson
    Moderator


    I suppose it depends on the value you put on the associated bragging rights and getting a mention in publications both farming and non farming on you're achievement. There was also a great cheer when the hammer went down which was bound to get the buyer's adrenaline flowing!!!

    Outside of that I don't know but I'd guess it's like a lot of beef farming in that it's a sort of calculated gamble. Thankfully in a lot of those cases money is only figures on a sheet and it doesn't have to make sense. I'd be fairly confident that no matter how well or not the venture goes that the buyer won't be going hungry on the head of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey
    Registered User


    She's not a pedigree so it's a heady amount. Still her offspring will go with the reputation of being out of the 18k heifer. How many flushes can you get. I've read you can get anywhere between 5-10 eggs per flush.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭ Grueller
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭ Hard Knocks
    Registered User


    Is the purchaser from the UK who bought the highest priced heifer in the sale 2 years ago



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ Sheep breeder
    Registered User


    At a recent pedigree ewe sale there was great bidding on line and one of the sellers got caught with buying one of the other sellers ewe. At a ram sale earlier in the year a ram made 5k and was sold to a Davy Fitz and the same sheep turned up at another sale 3 weeks later.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭ Grueller
    Registered User


    I never did any more than one per year. After a number of flushes the cow goes stale and needs to go in calf again to freshen her up.

    I have also gotten as few as 2 embryos so it fluctuates a lot



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,665 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe
    Registered User


    It's the lure of easy money, I suppose. I know in the pedigree game, there's a lot of "you buy mine and I'll buy yours". Becomes obvious after you go to a lot of sales. One Limousin breeder in particular is notorious for it. He has an 'understanding' with a prominent breeder in the UK. Up to all sorts of shenanigans. It's a case really of 'buyer beware'. Not much the societies can do to stomp it out.

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,209 ✭✭✭✭ whelan2
    Registered User




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭ squinn2912
    Registered User


    goes on in every mart in the country that. Similar to lads leaning on each other or polling, or even holding back the progress of the sale of an animal or a man’s animals. Some will only sell on donedeal for this reason.

    That show heifer craic is a con. You never seem to find out how much the prize money might be for winning a category, anyone shine a light on that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭ Hard Knocks
    Registered User


    If you look at the catelog it’ll tell the prizes

    Know a lad who bought a BBXxCH heifer at the Carrick winter fair (maybe 7 years ago), he brought her to lots of shows even Tullamore, at one stage he’d over 3k in prize money, sadly it was taking all of it to look after her

    Each to their own



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten
    Registered User


    That sale was more of a Circus than anything else. Nice heifer, but not really for breeding with all that muscle on the insides of her back legs, those same legs were sickled which surprised me anyone would consider her for breeding. More a Butchers heifer than anything with a true value of around €1200 max



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭ squinn2912
    Registered User


    She might be worth a bit more than that on the hook but yea the whole thing defies logic. Certain clique of ones can get in on it and share the wealth but not easy for an ordinary man to do it.

    If you have the right one and she is winning shows then she might bring in a bit but as previously said that all might cover her upkeep. Are they a bit like vintage cars? Look nice and a collector’s item but of little real practical value?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,665 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe
    Registered User


    I know someone who bought a fancy heifer like those in the UK last year. He was to flush her. Plan was to sell her embryos . He saId he had customers lined up already.

    I suppose its a bit like bitcoin. Everyone makes money until the bubble bursts.

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves
    Registered User


    There was an article in last Tuesdays Independent about the biggest suckker farm.in the country. They have 520 Suckler cows. In early November the manager spend 10 k on an incalf heifer 32 months of age. He intends to flush her after calving and use the embryo's in other cows. He is moving to sexed semen as well as he aims for 70% heifers.

    He took over the farm in 2019. That year weanling averaged 1195, last year they averaged 1350 and this year 1530.

    I cannot see that level of demand continuing unless a lot of these heifers are exported. You ate hitting at and above pedigree prices for weanlings. With Suckler numbers falling and all these lads flushing sooner or later the costs outweighs the returns.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭ DukeCaboom
    Registered User


    Look at greyhounds at the moment any pup that's runs a quick time lately in Youghal in its first 2 races can make 8k and 10k going to England. Madness altogether.



  • Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭ ABitofsense
    Registered User


    Sure look at the McGee sale on Marteye. The auction finishes tomorrow and some serious prices already with majority over 2k, 11mth old at 8400e and a 18mth old at 10500e currently.

    I was down in Roscrea to look at the Ballybawn dispersal. You'd pick up a cow, calf & incalf again for between 2.5 -4k! Some lovely stock for bargain prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭ farawaygrass
    Registered User


    You’d imagine any of these lads that attend marts regularly would pick up nicely coloured Weanlings for regular enough money. Halter train them, groom them, put them in calf and keep them for the year (are most of these heifers sold as 2 or 3 year olds?). A nice twist if you be can get anything about 2k for them



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Albert Johnson
    Moderator


    The problem with buying a heifer weanling is that you're going to have to keep her for 2 year's. Selling springers calving at 24 months is a recipe for disappointment in most cases. Most lads want size and power especially if there parting with the bigger money so you'll want them 3 year old or more at calving to avail of this. Any sort of a half reasonable weanling with colour and some bit of shape is going to cost €800+ and the sky is the limit depending on who's there on the day.

    By the time you've kept her for 2 year's and done all the above I don't think you'd be fast tracking it too millionaire status. They'd probably kill into a lot of it of it as beef heifers and no risks of some not proving incalf, slipping calves, temperament ect.

    If you try to buy a stronger heifer to reduce the length of time on farm then you're competing with every other springer producer. The days of buying nice coloured bullers at €1100-€1300 seem to be over and the same heifers are now €1500+. There now fit to give for the heifers what the springers used to make. It takes a while to get established and get repeat custom which is what makes or breaks you in that game imo.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Albert Johnson
    Moderator


    I'm not disagreeing with any of you're points and there's a world of money tied up in that venture for little return. However I thought the owners had other business interests in another sector that were vastly more profitable?

    I also agree that a lot of lad's will keep smaller numbers of better quality stock going forward which should keep demand up for those types. One thing that struck me in Carrick last week was the numbers of young people (under 35) present. You'd never see anything like that demographic at any other ordinary sale so perhaps that's the way it's going. Those with an interest will work away with small numbers of quality cattle to keep the land right and draw the sub. I also think the days of lad's keeping big numbers of cows is nearly gone around here anyway. There's a power of lad's tipping away with 8-12 cow's and happy at it alongside the day job. When you're only a few of them it would be as easy to keep a real good one as an average one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭ Grueller
    Registered User


    Ya afaik they have other business interests. But 600 acres at €300/ac rental is €180,000. My projections put it at €120,000 margin. Why do the work on that scale for less money??



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,665 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe
    Registered User


    I watched it online. Why didn't you buy Lot 13? 😀 She made just €2,100. I think if I was there, I would have been tempted by her. By Powerhouse Italic so milk might be an issue.

    What did you think of the Bavardage heifers?

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Albert Johnson
    Moderator


    I suppose there's a sort of prestige to being the biggest, let it be suckler farming or anything else. It also depends on how much value you placed on the €60,000 compared to the rest of you're wealth. Farming could quite possibly be a means of writing off taxable income as is often the case in those situations. I suppose you could ask why does anyone do anything, usually because they can.

    There's a man locally enough who had a major chain of retail stores until the last recession. He was declared bankrupt shortly afterwards but his son who never showed any interest in the land got into farming in a big way around the same time. All land base rented, men employed ect, the father was over seeing the whole operation since the son lives overseas. They've been reducing down the farming the last while and presumably reinvesting in other interests. Sometimes things don't have to make sense when you look at the bigger picture.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves
    Registered User


    It in the Article as average per weanling so I presume accross heifers and bulls. When demand drops ( and IMO it when not if) prices drop accross the board. It's a 600 acre farm and they intend to increase cows by 20% the way he is talking. There is no mention of weaning rates or calf per cow per year.

    I say labour costs would not stop at 120k/year. I think there is two fulltime lads with the manager. It not mentioned in the FI article but I think I saw it on an webinar on the farm. You probably have a lad covering holidays and extra labour at certain times of year. Assuming the two fulltime lads are earning 15/ hour pay employer PRSI and cover there holidays they be costing 75-80k.

    I doubt if the manager is on less than 45-50k. He covers all the calvings by himself.

    I cannot see the gra for 3 year old heifers lasting. If ration prices track fertlizer prices they will be tipping 400/ ton. Even if fertlizer prices drop back( urea to sub 500 / ton). Ration will be at or around 350/ ton. Between that and the push for sub 24 month slaughter there is a limit to the value of any animal. Beef and high costs systems are not compatible as you know well. A moderatly mid cost system probably returns the same.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭ ABitofsense
    Registered User


    I was leading on lot 14 until the internet slowed at home. Then when I could bid again she was sold for 100 more. Nearly broke the phone. Herself is still laughing about it. Should have stayed around but lessons learned.

    Stopped at 3500 on lot 9, went for 3600. I liked her, some length to her. Nice calf with her too. But I was after 14. Typical really, ended with nothing



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭ Grueller
    Registered User


    It actually mentions a €1530 average across the 152 heifers sold at last months sale in the 1st paragraph. I didn't read the rest of the article as it was behind a subscription wall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ Sheep breeder
    Registered User


    The average for the sale of the heifers was a great price, but at that average not to many were going for shipping. At present there is not huge numbers of Weanling being shipped due to the price in France being back and less cost to get them shipped. The price of diesel and drivers is a big factor.The fancy incalf heifer game is a new craze and the roan heifer is a big part of it. The big prices being paid is adding fuel to the fire and with flushing will add more to it also. When the market is over supplied there will be a lot of fellows burned.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭ ABitofsense
    Registered User


    McGee Sale a heifer hit 18000e too. Finished this evening



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