Grandfather's WILL changed

PheobeAsks

This is a very sensitive topic for me to talk about, but I need to protect my mother, who is the most selfless and good natured person I know.

My grandfather fell ill after a stroke in 2018. After a couple of months in hospital, we secured a place for him in a nursinghome under the fair deal scheme. My grandfather and his late wife had three children, one of which being my mother. Relations between the three children have never been 'stable' with the other two gone awol for the most part after my grandfathers wife had passed. My mother has always been a rock to my grandfather, but particularly in the past 10 years where she gave him his dinner every single day, spoke to him first thing in the morning / last thing at night etc. 

Grandparents have always said that the family home will be split equally between the three kids, and there was a will for this in place. Two of the daughters (inc. my mom) have been in a social housing scheme for a long time. The third child (the brother) has his own home in another county and is still awol, so I won't mention him in the below.. 

As of recently, one sister decided to leave her rented house and move in permanently to the family home with her young son. This wasn't discussed with my mother but was OK'd by my grandfather at the time as it being a temporary move. 

This sister has since alienated my mother, changed the locks in the family home and has tactically been feeding my frail grandfather (and other members of extended family) lies and false allegations (suggesting my mother has stolen money, even though we have all receipts and track record of grandfathers expenses), along with motivating him with the idea that he should provide a stable home for her and her young son, 'in that way the home will always stay in the family name'.

My grandfather has confided in another member of the family, saying that he has in the past couple of months changed the will with his solicitor to leave the full house to that one sister. My mother is devastated on the principle of this decision and I am heartbroken for her, after being the rock of the family her whole life. 

My grandfather's motivations for this change of will are based on false ideas that have been planted in his mind. I understand that the GP signed him off as sound minded to change the will, however since the stroke he has serious mental problems and cannot retain information very well. The other sister is very smart and has lots of contacts in the legal field, so I am sure all of the boxes were ticked to validate this new will.

I need to do everything in my power not to let the sister win with all of her horrible lies and manipulation. Myself and my mother are in the process of looking for legal aid to get some advice but it's turning into a nightmare. We will pay for a solicitor if we have to, but what can we do right now to help prove that my grandfather has been manipulated? Is the other sister going to naturally be awarded the house in either case since she has moved in with her young son and started doing 'renovations' on the house? (The house is a large 5 bed in a prime city location)

Is anyone aware of any legal precedent regarding the changing of wills of stroke victims / persons with impaired capability in a nursing home?

Thanks so much for any advice.

P.

honestly while it's absolutely shocking she went around everyones back to do this, it does sound like your grandad was doing what he felt he wanted to, if not what he just wanted to do flat out.

if a GP and solicitor were both happy he was sound enough mentally to make the decision I don't think you have much recourse. You'd likely have to prove the GP is incorrect and that he isn't of sound mind.

Challenge the will under "undue influence"

MrMusician18

Can you even challenge a will while the person is still alive?

PheobeAsks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118195951#Comment_118195951

I'm sure there is something we can do while he is still alive to help us for when the time comes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118195945#Comment_118195945

This would be the route we would take, but the problem is getting the evidence to prove 'undue influence', where do we start in proving this?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118196024#Comment_118196024

Hi Phoebe

I have over the last 17 years encountered mainly inheritance issues almost identical to the story you tell and I just have a couple of Qs

your mother has been a devoted dutiful daughter, bringing food and comfort and kindness for years, but nonetheless her father, though of sound mind according to his GP, was apparently very very easily persuaded by his other daughter that your mother was, in fact, a thief and a scoundrel. To the extent where he has written her out of his will.

So I assume that he had your mother barred from visiting him and having any access to his finances? Has no member of the family made a complaint about your mother to the Gardai? Do you think your mother might have grounds to complain about defamation??

endofrainbow

Has the Will definitely been changed?

If so, if could take a lot of time and money to challenge it and there's no guarantee of a successful outcome. Your Mother could end up having to pay costs if she were to lose.

Mrs OBumble

The nursing home is being paid under Fair Deal, for three plus years? I don't think there will be much house-value left for them to inherit once that is paid.

This could backfire badly on the sister who left her council/ social house and ends up with too much cash to get one again, but not enough to afford a house.

Charles Babbage

Who is managing your grandfather's financial matters now?

If there are allegations of wrongdoing then perhaps you could formally raise this issue with the solicitor using the records that you have.

Fair Deal takes 22.5% of the value of the house. If it is a 5 bed property then the sister could possibly still afford a smaller house from the proceeds of the sale (although of course it would not stay in the family name).

Tow

We don't know the house value, but a 5 bedroom in a prime city location would still be worth a lot. Easily 1.5m or more in Dublin. After the fair deal get their cut, if the sister was looking for social housing she will not be able to afford 7.5% x 3+ cost of the house. Let alone the CAT if she does not live there 3 years before inheriting it. So the house will probably be sold.

I can see how the OPs mother could be written out of the will. She put the father into a home. I have a seen extended family take real exception to being moved into a nursing home.

PheobeAsks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118197257#Comment_118197257

Interesting about your experience with similar cases! To answer your question - not exactly. He tells my mother that he doesn't believe that she has been mismanaging his finances and he wants her to continue managing them. Yes, her sister has threatened to make a complaint to the Guards, but i'm not sure if she did in the end. I don't think there's any case for defamation because it's all word of mouth, nothing in writing. Do you think my mother should go to the Guards anyway about the false allegations?

I think the main issue is that people close to 'the sister' have been playing with my grandfathers strings for some time without us knowing, and as of very recently he doesn't even seem remember the extremely close relationship that he had with my mother (they were literally best friends before the stroke).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118198511#Comment_118198511

Only a small percentage of the house is taken per year up to a maximum of 3 years, there will be 80%+ left in the sale value of the house.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118198592#Comment_118198592

^ mother still handling all finances.. I'm hoping that we can do something about the false allegations but again, it's only allegations through word of mouth.

Correct about the last statement, I don't think she has any intention of keeping the family home, it's only part of the lies she's feeding my grandfather to make him comfortable with the decision.

PheobeAsks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118198703#Comment_118198703

You're right Tow, I don't think the sister has any intentions in keeping the house, she will sell it off as soon as she can. There will be a large chunk left as you said. Interesting about the CAT though. I'm sure she has been advised how to overcome this, perhaps she had my grandfather sign a caretaker living agreement or something, that would cover her against CAT right?

3DataModem

I won't give you specific advice here OP, but I will comment that there in the end there will be only two choices;

1. Let it be
2. Go fully and wholly legal

There will be no way to handle this quietly, discreetly, or privately. You will have to effectively take legal action on the executors of the will, or your siblings, or both. If what you say is true, then you are dealing with an entitled person with an entirely different moral compass to your own, so there is no civilised way to deal with this other than to hand it over to a probate and family law solicitor and let them go in guns blazing.

Very very few people have the stomach for this ("sullying their parents name", "dragging their family through the mud", etc), which is why so many entitled/brazen people get away with it... because they know they can.

Jequ0n

OP, how did your mother find out about the false allegations? Did her father tell her himself?

Also. How trustworthy do you consider the other family member that he confided in?

There seems to be a lot of hearsay in this situation, and I think you need to question all of your sources of information in case you have flying monkeys involved.

coylemj

I'm pretty sure that the will cannot be challenged until the OP's grandfather dies. You cannot go to law and get a will changed while the testator is still alive.

The problem for the OP at this stage is that he may no longer be 'of sound mind' in order to make a different will. And even if he is and he makes a new will leaving the house to the OP's mother, what's to stop her sister going to law (after he dies) with the very same claim - that he was subject to undue influence?

And going to the Gardai because one member of the family is badmouthing another would be a total waste of time. Not a Garda matter.

Pistachio19

The man has not died and you are already, as a family, fighting over his will? Does your mother want to fight this? The fact she brought him dinners etc is neither her nor there. She was hardly doing that for future monetary gain. I imagine she did it because she felt it was the right thing to do for her and her father. You cannot challenge a will until the person dies. He could change it again without anyone's knowledge before he dies, if he is compis mentis. If he is non compis mentis now then he cannot. Once he has died your mother can challenge the will but it could be an expensive fight. If you or your mother do try to get your grandfather to change his will, then you are effectively doing the same as your aunt - coercing him. Leave it until he dies and if your mother wishes to contest it then that's her business.

UrbanFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118205925#Comment_118205925

I would think that is right.

Effectively, a will is a secret document that nobody is entitled to see until it is admitted to probate. At that stage a number of options might arise.

1. As soon as the testator dies OP's mother would be advised to lodge a formal objection (a caveat) with the Probate Office.
2. There may be a case to be advanced under S.117 of the Succession Act 1965 on grounds of fairness. LINK https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1965/act/27/section/117/enacted/en/html#sec117
3. Enquiries will need to be made of the solicitor who executed the will including what steps they took to satisfy themselves that the testator was of the requisite mental and freedom capacity. This will have to be done too after death.

OP's mother's best bet now is to see a solicitor to take advice and to have them ready for action as soon as death occurs. This might sound a bit clinical but it is better than letting the situation run away after death.

The brutal reality is that there may be nothing that can be done in the end. Better to take proper legal advice now and to be prepared and informed.

Easten

Am I right in thinking that you can ask the solicitor that has the Will if you are named on the Will? afaik the Solicitor cannot divulge the details of the Will to you but has to tell you if you are named on the Will. This would tell you very quickly if you have been written off the Will, but it could be the case where you are still on the Will but have been named to receive a paltry sum of 1000 Euro

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118307022#Comment_118307022

You can ask, but he won't tell you. He has an obligation of confidentiality to his client; he won't discuss his client's affairs - and that includes what's in his client's will - with you, unless his client authorises him to.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118312949#Comment_118312949

Are you 100% about this as I was led to believe that they legally have to disclose if you are named on the Will.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313093#Comment_118313093

While their client is still alive? Nope. Why would you imagine they would have such an obligation? How would you feel if you were the client, if there was a rule requiring your solicitor to tell other people anything at all about what was in your will?

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313097#Comment_118313097

If it is a case where someone is led to believe that they are to inherit say a Farm, that person would be doing all the farm work and helping out those people, wouldn't he/she need to know that he/she is not being duped?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313103#Comment_118313103

Being told that he is mentioned in the will, if not told exactly what has been said, would hardly prove that he is not being duped. Plus, it might give a false sense of security; on Tuesday you might be told - correctly - that you were mentioned in the will, and on Wednesday the testator might make a new will in which you are not mentioned.

If you are making a deal with somebody in which you will acquire an interest in his property in return for work done, and you need to know you're not being duped, you need a written agreement setting out what you will do and what you will get in return, and you need independent legal advice, including on whether you need to stamp and/or register that agreement in order to protect your interest. Being told that "you are mentioned in the will" is no substitute.

Midnight Sundance

Can your mother not just ask her father if she's been written out of the will and if so, why?

Then she can address the accusations of theft etc that you belive have been made against her. If he can say to her face that she's not in the Will because she took money then let her make the decision to move on if she wants.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313103#Comment_118313103

Nope that has happened and will continue to happen.

a solicitor cannot discuss anything confidential information to a third party

the testator is their client not anyone named in the will they cannot tell you and if they did tell you the testator can bring a case against the solicitor for misconduct

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313093#Comment_118313093

My mothers solicitor wouldn't even talk to me about her will after she died as I wasn't the executor.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118313658#Comment_118313658

The executor is obliged to tell you about your entitlements under the will, if you have any. They have to do this even if you don't ask. They are not obliged to tell you about anyone else's entitlements under the will. So if Great Aunt Gertie has left you €50 and her plaster statue of The Infant Samuel at Prayer, that's all you are entitled to be told.

(It goes without saying that you are not entitled to be told even this until the testator has died. While the testator is alive you can ask them, if you dare, what they have done for you in their will. They may or may not choose to answer and, if they do answer, they may or may not choose to answer truthfully. You have zero rights in this situation, basically.)

The solicitor advises and acts for the executor. The solicitor will advise the executor of their duty to you, and - if instructed to - may act on the executor's behalf in telling you about your entitlements. But they won't do this without the executor's instructions.