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Family farm transfer advice

  • 04-11-2021 11:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭ roosky


    Hi all,

    i am currently sorting a family farm transfer from my parents to me. The farm is small scale and part time but I have been farming in my own right for 10 years so despite its small size there is a good bit of stock and machinery and bits to transfer.

    i have all the relevant advice from Teagasc, IFAC, Soliciter and accountant but for the last step I want your advice as farmers who have gone through this process before.

    i have 4 siblings who have no association with the farm (except borrowing a trailer or tools etc) and all are okay with me getting the farm as it has been known for years so there is no awkwardness now but I want to ensure there is none down the road.

    the transfer will include the farm yard and most machinery (few bits dad wants to keep, in case I’d sell them !)

    now my question is, I want to keep the transfer simple and not be nit picking over things such as chainsaws or power washers or trailers etc but I would maintain all these bits around the yard and then my two brothers would borrow them occasionally…..I’m fearful that if i ask to put all the little bits in the transfer that I look greedy and will annoy my father/brothers but I’m also worried that if I don’t there will be a dispute over these bits down the line…..I know if stuff is left in yard (under my control) it will be there for the lads to use as needed but if noting is said now bits will be brought and not returned….it’s not so bad now because if a chainsaw isn’t returned for example I’ll get dad to say it to the brothers and that works fine now but when I take over I could get a different response !

    my worry isn’t greed, I just want to avoid conflict, TIA



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭ Gman1987


    Agree with K.G. your talking about a few bits and bobs that would add up to a couple of thousand at most. Best to say nothing. When the transfer goes through you can always upgrade them by trading in the old one so it would look like the new one is yours then. Having said that if your brothers want to borrow them then let them, you only have one family and it only takes one dispute to turn things sour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,463 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    If they borrow a saw and don’t return are you going to start waving a will or transfer around?


    Not worth the fall out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,202 ✭✭✭✭ whelan2


    I'd just put a spray or a mark on everything, that identifies it as yours, as others said no point falling out over tools.



  • Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭ roosky


    Thanks for your advice, I'm fully on board with leaving things as they are, at the minute all is technically dads but i would have been adding to and upgrading bits all along and as i said anything that breaks is left to me to fix etc...

    I was just thinking if we had it on paper then everyone knows where they stand. for example if dad left all tools to my brother that wouldn't bother me once we knew where we stood...… I just dont want argument down the line.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭ White Clover


    Don't mention tools. If the brother borrows something and holds on to it just go away and get your own then.

    Don't go trading in small value items like chainsaws just get another one and leave the old one to your brother.



  • Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭ roosky


    so we all agree that small stuff such as chansaws, power tools, etc etc are not worth mentioning and not worth having an argument over but what machinery would ye put in writing to do a clean transfer from a tax point of view etc.

    DO you list tractors and tractor machinery, quad bike and its equipment, trailers.....where do you stop, like obviously I'm not going to put down the bale spike but things like a mower or fertilizer spreader would they usually be mentioned in a transfer, maybe i would divide them by value like list everting above €1,000 or something like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler



    I'd even tell your siblings to keep the tools,

    To be squabbling over a thousand euros worth of tools after inheriting the farm will only send you doolally.

    They'll wreck them and then the row will be who's going to service them



  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭ mr.stonewall


    I would say list the big main machinery with value for the farm. Some of older machinery leave as is, it can be cheaper to just buy straight than trading in on these. You will have the capital allowance on these for tax purposes.

    On the tools front, slowly start to build your own collection. Maintain the older ones. Over time the need for these will drop away.

    No point in creating a row over small things. Slowly over time they will become more accepting that you have your own stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Just two things. Look at your father accounts. He will have a stock balance. He can take that out of the farm tax free. If you pay him for that stock value you can use stock relief to deprecate it against tax. Talk to you accountant about it.

    On tools and small items forget about it. As you but new stuff write it off against tax. Larger machinery may still have a book value transfer it at book value pay your father for it and deprecate in the accounts.

    There is serious tax reliefs lads do not avail of at farm transfers as I said both you and your father should sit down and talk to the accountant

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭ roosky




  • Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭ n1st


    Make a decision, it doesn't need to be the right decision, a decision is often all that is needed. Sometimes democracy and appeasement is not warranted.

    Do what's right for you and make it clear, legally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    What are you talking about of the 10+k of small tools on a farm, chainsaw, brush cutter, angle grinder, hammers, spades shovels etc, maybe a cement mixer in stuff that there's no registration data on. At the end of the time of the stuff that lads may borrow is 3-5k in value and after depreciation with tax if you bought new ones yourself and left the old ones wither away it 2-3k in real terms.


    There will never be conflict over a pigtail, fence reel or an electric fencer, I buy anything there could be conflict over new myself and still lend them to any family members. FFS you are walking away with 300k minimum of an asset WTF fall out over the price of a family holiday.

    I have only ever fallen out over a issue similar to this with a lad and by [email protected]@k did he push hard to get to that stage.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Leave the tools as your Dads and let the lads borrow them when they want. Leave

    Get your own gradually and keep the one the lads aren’t borrowing.

    You’ve just inherited a major asset. Appreciate that and be kind to your brothers. If they want a site to build on gift it to them if they get planning permission too.

    Thats my advice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭ trg


    Why would op pay for something that he can get for nothing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,315 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    Can you not do it up as "transfer everything except for X/Y/Z" where X/Y/Z are the bits your dad wants to keep or give to someone else?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭ trg




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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    In a lot of farm transfers there is often money that may changes hands. If you can do it tax efficently it makes much more sense. OP has thanked me for the advice so ask him. We are not all tight c**ts and if you can leave a ball of money to your parents who may be able then to set up a brother or sister elsewhere. At the end of the day its your father or mothers money, in the scheme of the assets you are getting. Aswell your siblings may apprecate this and there may be less jealousy down the line.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭ trg


    Jaysus alright. No one called anyone a tight c**t. There was no money mentioned in the op so I couldn't see the relevance of your post.

    Enjoy the rest of your weekend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Tax and money is always relevant to any asset transfer. First off stock and Machinery should be transferred at there value as revenues may well look at the transfer in detail.

    Many farm transfers can not avail of agri relief. In that case the personal limits 335k comes into play by using the tax system some of that .oney may stay in the family rater than handing it over to revenue.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    A friend inherited a farm lately and there was money also specified to be spent on the farm and this was even able to avail of agri relief as well as land and stock, you won't transfer money any cheaper than that.

    Same friend is having inheritances coming from all sides



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