Eastern European

Nesta99

Is it appropriate to sweepingly use the term Eastern European when referring to people from the EU 17-24, eg in reporting today on CSO data on covid-19 vaccination uptake among non-nationals. It is a term often used in crime reporting eg X person 'from Eastern Europe in court on charges of Y' or 'The victim, from Eastern European' etc. Are we referred to Western European in these countries. Would a German person be called Central European or just German. Does it even bother people of the relevant different nationalities. Imo it has or could stigmatise quite a broad number of people. Not sure if its exactly the same but some people can be quite tetchy when referred to as Southern Irish as a broad term for being from the Republic of Ireland from Donegal to Cork. It's not a personal bugbear, i'm interested in people opinion especially in the more current times of considered titles for of groups.

Maybe this has been commented on before, I hope its not a rehash of a previous thread. If so mods please delete or merge.

embraer170

I find the mainstream use of the term "non national" to be rather odd and even inappropriate.

Mad_maxx

Eastern European is commonly used to describe nations of the former communist bloc.

While technically, the likes of Poland is in Central Europe, it's informally referred to as Eastern Europe.

igCorcaigh

Interesting question; do we identify as Western European? What about Central Europe: does such a thing exist as an identity or even as part of a media narrative?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087209#Comment_118087209

It's cultural as much as geographical and of course has political legacy

Western Europe covers all of the countries which didn't end up in the Warsaw pact despite geographically not fitting the definition

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087201#Comment_118087201

Yes, so it's an artifact of the Iron Curtain idea then?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087218#Comment_118087218

Yes but it's not intended to be offensive in anyway while being technically inaccurate with respect of some countries

Czech Republic is a lot less east than Ukraine yet both are placed in same basket

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087228#Comment_118087228

I've met Czech people here, Hungarian and Polish , but no Ukrainian. Have you?

Edit: Ukraine aren't in the EU though, doh!

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087254#Comment_118087254

I have, Moldovan too

No Russians though

phonypony

If it's geographic I'm fine with it. I find it funny when some Irish people get so upset about people referring to this geographic area as The British Isles on weather forecasts, etc., what a privilege to only be worrying about such insignificant things...

paul71

I honestly beleive it is an antiquated term. The only identifying factor is a relatively short 40 year communist era. Most of the countries identified as such are now almost as long out of communism as they were subjected to it. All of them have at least 2,000 year old histories and cultures.

Some are Slavic, some are Latin, some are Ugro-balts, some are Germanic. Some are Catholic, some are Protestant, some are Ortodox, some are Athesist, some are Islamic. Some are further west than Greece, Austria or Finland. Some have an primarily agricultural hertigage, some have a heavy industry and technology history that surpasses the heavy industrial areas of the Rurh, Northern Italy, Northern France, or Northern England.

The Croatians are much Mediterrians as the Italians, The Czechs are as much Central Europeans as the Swiss or Austrians, Estonians are as Scandanavian as the Finns.

"Eastern Europe" is as much an intergral part of Europe as as any other part of Europe, and the Iron curtain was a temporary aboration.

My wife wouldn't have a problem being called East European, even though she's been Irish for the better part of a decade now people have no way to know that and it's preferable to them guessing a country and getting it wrong, she really doesn't like that :)

Ten of Swords

Eastern Europe aligns pretty much exactly with the defunct Eastern Bloc, it's a geopolitical description rather than a reflection of geography. For instance, Greece should be considered Eastern European and yet it's considered "Western" simply because it's member of NATO.

Currently the EU agency EuroVoc divides Europe into North, South, Central/East and West. Most EU government agencies would use this classification for official documents. They classify Ireland as West.

SEPT 23 1989

Second World countries they are red on the map

Nesta99

Some interesting points and clarification of the origins of the term, and even the folly of the term in a longer term historical view than post WW2 geopolitics. But in terms of its use by news media eg is it even relevant. I'm risking implied issues by mentioning crime again but there can be a tendency, I feel, to make reference to people originally from this large and arguably inaccurate and outdated term for the region. Inconsistent with how other European nationals would be referred to ie their specific country. Is it lazy journalism or in general society not to become more aware of specific countries in the former Eastern Bloc and use nationality. Valid point above in the generalisation of 'non-nationals'. a term that I have heard being used dismissively.

My questions in the op is more about the relevance, how it could be perceived, pitfalls of the broad term, maybe advantages if there are any, rather than the origins. Again an example of what Im thinking in hope its relevant - asking a person In conversation what country they were from and being thanked for the question for not making an assumption, the person being Ghanaian but used to being lumped in with other nationalities or a whole continent.

Maybe there isnt an answer really, it is what it is and if people dont mind grand. Yeah I just think its a bit lazy especially in media or official info/statements etc. Some musings rather than a wagging finger.

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087201#Comment_118087201

Why would Eastern Europe have anything to do with the former communist bloc?

Does a wolf or an eagle or a mouse or a rabbir or a fish have any affliliation as they run or fly or swim from Austria to Hungary?

Shao Kahn

This has the look and feel of the national equivalent of using the correct pro nouns for a country! lol

Most eastern Europeans I know, don't seem to have any issue with the term. They frequently refer to themselves in this classification.

Is it a sign of disrespect to the individual cultures that make up this region? No, I don't think so. It's just an old legacy term we still use, just like northern Europe or Scandinavia, southern Europe or Mediterranean etc.

When you see it printed, like say "man of eastern European origin", it is very often followed up by a more precise location within that region if this information is available. You see the same classification with say "UK man held on charges of... " further down the article, you may then get "the man in his 50's, originally believed to be from the greater Manchester area" etc etc. I think it's very similar to that really.

I don't think there is any malice implied in these terms. (most of the time)

Buddy Bubs

Eastern and western European, Nordic, North and south American, sarahan and sub saharan Africa, iberian, antipodean, Pacific Islands, baltic region, South East Asia, Pacific rim, Middle East,

You'd hear all these quite regularly to group countries by region, there's probably many more

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088361#Comment_118088361

Odd post

Generally shortened form of "Slavic and Eastern European" however not all Eastern Europeans are of Slavic origin.

Europe used to be divided by the Iron Curtain into East/West split.

I think in the modern age it makes more sense to divide by North/South. Baltic countries are very different from Bulgaria/Romania for example.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087254#Comment_118087254

Made friends with a Ukrainian lad on my Uni course. Quite a few in Limerick.

bob mcbob

Well we still refer to the Balkans which was the border to the Ottoman Empire and that empire died 100 years ago

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087168#Comment_118087168

Letter to the editor so or it Twitter these days?! You could always try Roderic on it, it's very much his kind of thing. It's just a generic and surprisingly accurate term, one that caused no offence until it could be claimed to!

On the OP question, it's a mix of the Cold War as commented and a location thing. The Baltics would certainly be Eastern Europe and parts of the east of Poland. People from those parts don't seem to care about such things in my experience. We will use what first comes to mind and if someone corrects you won't do that the next time.

Romer

I always feel that highlighting demographic information in crime reporting was simply to make sure the dear readers knew exactly "who we are dealing with here".

In the US, you don't have a police shooting a suspect. You have a white officer gunning down a black male. (eg lookit the hate crime)

Over here you get "Eastern European" which always seems to come across as less than a high class Irish citizen. A legit way of calling them a durty foreigner. It's been awhile since I've seen a Nigerian noted in the press.

You can of course also, of course, read about Irish Nationals whom are "known to the Guardi" (criminal scum and not worth worrying over) and also those "of no fixed abode" (and we all know what that is).

Anytime I see any of those it just seems the article is moving away from relevant facts and including terms meant to be incendiary and simply detracts from the validity of the news.

It may not be their intent, but it's always how it reads in my head. So maybe the problem is with me?

The only phrase I hate worse than any of those, and which lowers my trust in media even more is "users took to social media".