Land dispute

FuNKy102

Hi my sister asked me to post this question here as I have told her boards seems to be a very helpful place in regards to advice!!

I am just wondering my parents own land and she and her family are looking to build a home on the land ( that my parents own) however, Recently a neighbour passed away and left their land to a family member ( the land is right beside my families. But the family member belonging to (deceased neighbour) has decided that there was a mistake in the land registry and that some of our land example: the entrance my sister would be looking to use from the road belongs to them. They decided to send a solicitors letter to my parents requesting that they sign over the piece (it is .1 of an acre) to them, my parents declined and it has escalated from there, the inst came back and my parents solicitor has stated there has being no mistake that it belongs to my parents but the current owner of neighbours land is still bringing my parents to court over this now claiming that they have being farming on the land for over 30 years. There is no evidence of this whatsoever and the piece they are claiming is theirs has being un used by both parties up until my sister decided to build.

My sister went ahead with her planning permission and it was granted regardless that They have put in a lis pending on the title through their solicitor and they have put in submissions (one being from current owner claiming they gave no consent and that my sister trespassed and another from a local architect claiming same and that land was unsitable) all of which council have overlooked because my sister provided council with documents proving the land was in our parents name and they have stated there is nothing wrong with where she is building.

What we are wondering is can these people keep pursuing this even though it doesn't belong to them? Can they actually gain squatters rights and prevent my sister from building her house??

We were told it is going to cost my parents alot of money going to court with the neighbours about this dispute but neighbours are unwilling to go into a settlement.

Does anyone know what could happen could my parents lose that bit of land???

Thank you for reading and I hope someone can give us some solid advice as we seem to be getting nowhere and non the wiser so far!!

Thanks again.

ekimiam

"requesting that they sign over the piece"

if its addressed to : the owners of x land ,thats your pudding

Atlantic Dawn

What is currently displayed on the land registry documentation? You can check this at landdirect.ie.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083413#Comment_118083413

If it is registered that is.

If not, then it could be more open to dispute

ekimiam

has to be registered land for lis penden, doesnt have to be registered on landdirect.ie if there hasnt been a transfer since that act came in.

'Squatters rights' known as adverse possession, would need to exclude owner from the land, to talk/write about excluding others isnt physical possession

FuNKy102

It is registered in my parents name, and on folio but they have wrote in saying there was a mistake made when maps were done?? Parents got a land surveyor out and he said the boundaries all match up and the land registry said there is no mistake? But my sister can't understand why is it still going this far, how can they be still able to bring them to court over it???

whippet

You can go to court to argue any point you want realistically. That is obviously what they are doing and it seems they have engaged a solicitor who has either advised them that they have a case or they are pursuing it regardless.

The only advise you will get here is to seek proper legal advise as this looks like it will go to court and unless you have proper legal representation it could end up in a total mess.

FuNKy102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083909#Comment_118083909

Yeah I know whet you mean it seems mad that it can actually go as far as court even though its on paper that it belongs to our parents. My sister has a solicitor on it but he just seems very relaxed about the whole thing, and she's worried because he told her that it will cost thousands going to court, ( the piece isn't even worth €1500) that the dispute is over and she's stressed between trying to get a mortgage and then thinking of that on top of it, I just thought maybe someone on here might have being through a similar situation and it worked out for them okay and didn't go as far as reaching court but it looks like court is going to be the only way forward unfortunately!

FishOnABike

The neighbour can try anything to court they have the money to pay their solicitor. How far it will go beyond that and how successfull they might be in their claim is another matter.

If they lose their case they can have the other side's legal costs awarded against them and end up liable for both their own and your sister's / parents' legal costs. Collecting that might not be trivial though.

Furze99

Best sorted between your parents/ sister and neighbour. Are they talking?

FuNKy102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084188#Comment_118084188

I wish that was the case for her but unfortunately since my parents recieved a solicitors letter from them requesting they sign over that piece of land, and when they refused its gone very sour between all involved!! Not good for anyone in this equation to be honest.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083405#Comment_118083405

The request also shows that the neighbours' claim to the land was not uncontested as why would they have to request it to be signed over in the first place if their claim was not contested.

blackbox

OP you say the land was being used by both parties for 30 years (or did you mean unused?)

Are you sure they are not just looking for a right of way rather than ownership?

You can not sign over something unless you own it, so if the request is worded as you stated, they have actually acknowledged that you own it.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084432#Comment_118084432

Well they should bit the bullet and sort it out between themselves. Neighbour may well be looking for to register a right of way to access fields etc. That's in the mix at the moment. Would your sisters house using this access, interfere with their ROW? That may be the nub?

FuNKy102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084677#Comment_118084677

Sorry I ment that they have stated they have being farming on it for 30 years, but it has being unused by both them and my family for as long as I can remember, the size of it is a little bigger then two average estate houses back gardens put together and has being full of brambles and rushes never touched. One mistake my parents made and I addressed them on it was just before my parents recieved the letter from their solicitor , the neighbours husband came in onto the land and cut it using a strimmers! He also removed the hedge that separated the two lands, we have pictures to prove this! It's at the bottom of our parents field and to be honest it's only good for an entrance which is what my sister wants to use it for but they are still maintaining its theirs and there is a mistake in land registry.

FuNKy102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085024#Comment_118085024

Hi sorry I didn't put that part in they have an entrance into their field from the other side already. No her entrance wouldn't be near their access at all. They removed the hedge separating the two fields

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085055#Comment_118085055

Was the land used as an entrance before the hedge was used?

FuNKy102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085074#Comment_118085074

Hi no it was never used as an entrance before.

Furze99

On the face of it, sounds like they don't need the access from this way in. One can only assume that they object to the new proposed dwelling house? Is that it? Did they object when PP was being sought? If you're down that road, gets murky. Still, I'd be talking to them and clarify exactly what is their problem. You can't just go around claiming that errors were made on maps at time of land registration without proof. Otherwise the process of registration would be a nonsense. Must be some other agenda here.

FishOnABike

I'd suspect the crux of the matter isn't the 0.1 acre / €1500 but the development potential it unlocks.

The neighbour who recently inherited the neighbouring possibly brought a fresh eye to what was a bit of unused rough ground on the boundary and realised the potential for a corner of a field to be turned into a site if they could claim the strip of land.

Did they ask permission to strim the area or to remove the hedge?

The land registry, your survey and a boundary hedge all point very strongly to you being in the right.

What grounds did the architect give for stating the land registry and surveyor and hedge are all wrong? Because the neighbour said so or do they have any genuine reason?

FuNKy102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085476#Comment_118085476

Yes they objected about a week after my sisters planning permission went up, they put in a written submission stating that part of the land ( that piece) belonged to them and that they gave no such consent for her to apply for planning. They got an architect to add a submission also on their behalf claiming what they said in written letter and also he said the land was jnsuitable to build.

Planning authority granted my sister permission and wrote back addressing the submissions stating that they found the land was suitable and they have documents to say it belongs to my parents but that they could put in an appeal to on bord pleanala. To be honest it is very messy on them and I just feel so bad for my sister as it looks like they have a very long road ahead of them with this!!

FuNKy102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085683#Comment_118085683

It doesn't look to be to be honest we have being talking over and over about it and to be fair we don't know what sort of agenda they have with it here.

No they never got or sought permission to strim the area or remove the hedge. Although my parents, I feel are partly to blame in my eyes for not having them removed once they were seen entering that area.

The architect just basically said the same as what they had in written letter that they gave no consent for my sister to apply for planning permission and that the site would be unsuitable to build on etc.

FishOnABike

Sounds as if the architect just repeated the neighbours statement that they hadn't given their consent for your sister to apply for planning without anything further to support their position.

I'd ask nicely for the hedge to be reinstated where it was but if I didn't get a reasonable reply I'd seriously consider a solicitor's letter to the neighbour asking them to reinstate the boundary hedge as it was removed without your sister's consent.

spaceHopper

They have invested a good bit of money in this so far so what is driving this. They must want it for access to their land for development. Is the access to their land on bad stretch of road so they wouldn't get permission for a house or houses?

Your sister needs to get it resolved. No back will lend to your sister if there is property dispute. At the same time they can't develop their land if there is dispute over access. Is there a way for your sister to change her plans so that it could be used be them for any future development, what would that cost and would the other side pay it.

Could she get her solicitor to write to their solicitor asking since they did not appeal to An Bord Pleanala have they relinquished the claim. Could your sister get her architect to modify her plans as above and do drawing for them to consider but make it clear the cost to do is x and they will have to pay it.

Donald Trump

You might need to go down and put a fence around it. Block up that gap too.

Is there a chance that they actually own the land? Separate from the legal aspect (which is ultimately the one that will prevail). If their family has been there for a long time they might just know what is theirs over the generations. Your family appears to have been there for a while too so the reverse might be the case.

At home we have a boundary between ourselves and a fella who was our neighbour. Our bit ends, and then the neighbours begins on the other side. The unusual thing is that a third person has a field in behind the neighbours and there is a "laneway" into that. The third person assumes that he owns that laneway. But he doesn't. It is the neighbours. He only has a right of way. The third fella could try to claim adverse possession but he hasn't. The third fella married in to that property while the original bounding neighbour died and his property was sold to someone else. So my family knows where their boundaries are but neither of them appear to know! Because both are effectively blow-ins. It doesn't affect us as the "laneway" part is wholly on the neighbours property.

(And yes, I have seen the boundaries confirmed on old maps, but even before then I was aware of it through it being passed down.)