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Government pulls plug on phev grant.

  • 19-10-2021 2:11pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭ carsfan2


    It appears that Eamon Ryan has decided that phev’s are green no more and the 2500 grant has been pulled from end of this year. He says all electric is the way to go now as no more range anxiety. This was not in the budget but announced today.

    A bummer for anyone waiting on one for January 2022.

    importers are understandably up in arms as they have pre ordered cars that may not be priced competitively anymore.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,080 ✭✭✭ CoBo55


    Not really a surprise as it had been flagged in previous budgets. Sneaky that they didn't announce it on budget day, a Brendan Howlin special...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    some people do try their best to use them in an environmentally friendly manner but I hate PHEVs. Destination charging for EVs is near impossible around these parts with PHEVs hogging all the 22kw chargers.

    Could Jap import PHEVs have anything to do with this. Did the grant apply to them as well?



  • Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭ WattsUp


    Won't stop the big SUV type PHEVs. Even without the grant the PHEV brings down the VRT band (from 37% to 9% ) and that make a big difference to an big SUV. Also saves a lot of motor tax over lifetime and the it might never even get plugged in.


    Range Rover Evoque 2.0 249 PS AWD R-Dynamic €74,220

    Range Rover Evoque 1.5 PHEV 300 PS AWD R-Dynamic €61,190



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,788 ✭✭✭ Grumpypants


    It's silly. I've had a phev for three years and I'm on battery 95% of the time.


    All this will do is point a buyer in my boots back to diesels. Yes it's true the new batch of EVs arriving next year can do 400 km, but they are also all 50 grand or more.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,756 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    No, they are not 50k or more


    the ID3 is 32k cash. Id4 is 46k

    and there’s a lot of other cars available



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭ elperello


    Whatever about the merits of PHEVs it's a badly timed change of the rules.

    They could have flagged it and left the change until March or April which would have been fairer to potential purchasers and the trade.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,788 ✭✭✭ Grumpypants



    Cheapest ID4 I can see is 50k. And at that you can't really buy it but go on a 6-9 month wait list.


    ID3 is too small for someone like me. No way I'd stuff 5 of us into that. It needs to be in the Ioniq 5, KIA 6, ID4 size / range and they are all 50-60k.

    They advertise models at 35-37 but you can't actually buy them as they aren't really for sale.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,756 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Here you go 46k cash. https://www.volkswagen.ie/idhub/content/dam/onehub_pkw/importers/ie/models/product-guides/my22/ID4_MY22new.pdf


    I have ordered the smaller battery size ID4 as like you the ID3 was to small for the 5 of us.

    after a 3k scrappage allowance on a car worth 500, it cost 32k.

    they are not available to order at the moment but I imagine they’ll be back when semi conductor issue is resolved



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    It's a good move. They are basically super expensive petrol cars that offer very sketchy environmental benefits. Europe is focussed on Bev adoption and they are right to sidestep this distraction.

    Car manufacturers will likley adjust pricing to ensure they remain competitive and start dropping models.

    Its a benefit to consumers as they will get taxed as any other ice car in years to come. Better we all move to Bev rather than stretch out another 10 years of petrol with a slice of battery.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭ Orebro


    Pity the manufacturers are still getting away with this scam to get around the VRT bands. Anything with "Range Rover" and low emissions in the same sentence is laughable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,833 ✭✭✭ BKtje


    I bought a PHEV A class (a250e) almost exactly a year ago. I've done 27k km on it with an average of 3-5k km between petrol refills which is about 0.5 to 0.7l/100km (plus electricity from the grid). The technology is fine, it's how people abuse it to dodge tax that is the problem.


    That said I would definitely go for a full BEV if I was to buy today and I will probably be in a BEV in the next two years if I don't get a job with a shorter commute.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    No doubt and phev adopters will do this just a 1st gen leaf owners commuted 30 or so km within their available range each way.


    Buts not a solution for cars as a whole. It defo suits a few people but it's really about making gravy and getting compliance using the same old tech and factories and models.


    If you replace the entire car fleet with phev there will be a reduction of emissions but no where near enough as a lot of people need to blast 50+km down a motorway at least each day. It's about the big picture and not the fact that any one person is the perfect use case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,446 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    But PHEV weren't cheap, can get a decent ev for around the same price with a lot more range and a lot less plugging in, larger battery PHEV would have been better at least 30-40 Kwh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    If those PHEVs were "using" the chargers it wouldn't be so bad but they park at them for multiple hours because they are vacant and in that time multiple BEVs could have availed of those spaces.

    It is pure laziness to park there than descend a few additional stories in an underground parking garage. I check the display on the chargers as I go to the exit and more often than not the car is plugged in but taking no charge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    BEV owners do the same thing, even go so far as to turn down the charging speed as to get cheap easy parking, but your comment about "multiple BEVs could have availed of those spaces" tells me all I need to know about your attitude, I on the other hand would prefer to see every one charge Phev or BEV.

    There is a lack of chargers, take the new hospital at St James, I see on plug share a plan to install 2(which is ridiculous), I was there at 7 am on Monday, had there been any I would have plugged in but then some BEV owner would whine as much as there car whines to warn pedestrians because my car finished charging after 2.5 hours and I was there 5.

    I though about it a few times and I was glad I did not have a BEV that particular day, as to waste time charging to save the cost of doing 5 l/100 km does not seem worth it to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭ Miscreant


    My PHEV has 64k miles (yes miles...) on it and 47k of those have been on pure electricity at this stage. The vast majority of that mileage was done by the previous owner as I got the car with 56k miles on it.

    As with other PHEV owners, I bought mine because a BEV with the right range for me is beyond my price point and I don't want to rely on the public infrastructure when doing a long trip. In my ownership, the car has not been parked at a public charger at all and when travelling across country, I charge at home before leaving and plug in at the end of the journey (obviously using fuel along the way).

    I think pulling the grant in this way (without real notice) is a bad idea whether you like PHEVs or not. It should have been publicised further ahead of time but I think the Government know full well that at this time of the year, a lot of new car buyers will be inclined to wait until the new registration plates come out in January.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    What does it tell you about my attitude other than I consider destination charging a valuable and scarce resource which is being abused.

    Your antagonistic responses speaks volumes about your disposition.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    I have good reason, these are your words " I hate PHEVs" go up and read it yourself.

    Now you consider a choice some one made to wholly dependent on a valuable and scarce resource to be a wise one? That some one who knows that there is not enough chargers and bought a car that can take advantage of available resources is something else?

    Say you get your way, ban phev's from chargers, you honestly think you will not have a problem charging your car? Your hatred of them reminds me of people keying tesla's I have seen on youtube.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    For the last number of weeks I've been unable to charge at chosen destinations because of inconsiderate PHEV drivers so I stand over the statement.

    Before the pandemic hundreds of 11kw destination chargers in work were blocked by PHEV drivers rolling in at 7 or 8am and just abandoning their cars for the entire day forcing BEV drivers to try and charge after the PHEV drivers' workday is done.

    PHEV drivers for the most part chase grants and rebates and aren't interested in shared infrastructure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,095 ✭✭✭✭ javaboy


    For all the people saying they use their PHEV on battery ~95% of the time, then you're already seeing massive savings on fuel. That's a financial incentive in itself.

    But you have to admit huge numbers of PHEVs are running on fuel for most of their journeys. Those owners are not reducing their environmental impact much but they are/were getting a financial bonus in the form of lower VRT, SEAI grant, motor tax etc.

    There's no easy way to take the grant off the second group but keep rewarding the first group... other than higher fuel taxes of course. Focusing the grants on BEVs takes driver behaviour out of the equation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    Early bird catches the worm, first up best dressed, buy a BEV complain about phev's



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,756 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    They are called chargers. Once a PHEV or BEV is charged , it is no longer charging. And should be moved. Get onto your facilities team. And ask them to get people to book slots or move once charged



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    Smart 👆️👆️👆️



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭ MightyMunster



    A thread with some reasons as to why PHEVs aren't considered worthy of a subsidy anymore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    You obviously haven't tried to compete with a nation of Germans for early rising.

    I was chatting to one of my Colleagues and he plans to charge his Polestar almost entirely at the two local supermarkets for free while shopping very leisurely. He has foregone the company charging card to save about 80 euro a month on tax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭ Wildly Boaring


    There is another side to this.

    EU taxonomy rules kick in this year.

    Green money can be had for very low rates, basically 0% for now.

    Green money cannot be spent on anything to do with fossil fuels



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭ elperello


    Thanks for the link but lots of the comments are actually supporting PHEVs as a transition from diesel to BEV.



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