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Colin Powell has died. A tainted legacy?

  • 18-10-2021 12:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,619 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, a man who rose to supreme command without the benefit of Westpoint. Long recognised as an exceptional soldier and commander. A man who paved the way for Black leaders in both the US military and in Politics.

    A man who repackaged Sun-Tzu as the widely adopted and quickly forgotten Powell Doctrine. That war was avoided but where war must be made? That it was pursued with such overwhelming power and specific aims. That any war would be both short and victorious.

    A doctrine that would have ensured 2003 American interventions either never happened or were of a short duration with a specific aim. Unfortunately abandoned in the war on terror.


    Yet his legacy will IMO at least be forever associated with the dodgy 2003 invasion of Iraq and the claims of WMD. His presentation to the UN was a pack of lies and despite his previous brilliance? The one thing that he will most be remembered for IMO.



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,074 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    Tainted legacy, of course he has. He demeaned himself at the UN at the behest of George Dubya.

    I think the most important point right now though, is that Covid 19 Delta is killing GOP grandees. And while Colin Powell was no Cruz or Gaetz or MTG, its something that really ought to get Republican voters thinking. But of course it will not.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Cataleya Plump Bread


    of course. He will be primarily remembered for Iraq.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,971 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    RIP. He was a real restraining influence behind the scenes in the first Gulf War, people forget that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,631 ✭✭✭ Cody montana


    Thought he died last year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,619 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    I think his contribution to Desert Storm and in particular his diplomacy and coalition building in bringing together Arab/US/Nato forces and in keeping Israel out of the war were an incredible achievement.

    The Gulf War is also the supreme demonstration of the Powell Doctrine.

    His rise from Lieutenant to 4 star in the military and becoming youngest ever JCS, doing it from outside the Military Acadamies as a black man is truly remarkable.

    His service SoS and being until Obama the highest office attained by a black man in the US blazed a trail.

    His endorsement of Obama, and his opposition to Trump will not, and should never be expected to mitigate his being the US mouthpiece for the WMD lie.

    He blazed a trail IMO, if he had accepted the US presidential nomination in 1996? I believe he would have romped home and his cautious and measured approach to International relations would likely have had a marked impact on Geopolitics.

    He put his name as the credible face to the WMD lie and really, destroyed the credibility he earned from his years of service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,766 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    Always struck me as a man of integrity and honour but as has been said.

    That pile of crap he dished up at the U.N undermined his reputation enormously



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,073 ✭✭✭ sheesh


    you could see at the time he didn't believe what he was saying. Read afterwards the administration wanted him to do the briefing so it would be believed and he accepted probably they did not want to get their hands dirty. He was completely dropped in it by the bush team.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭ Dr. Bre


    Him and condoleeza rice are the only 2 from the bush administration I had time for



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,489 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    I don't think anything you do before you became a murderer and a war criminal makes a blind bit of difference to your reputation once you have crossed the line of being a war criminal.

    I will mourn him about as much as I would Milosevic or Pinochet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,063 ✭✭✭✭ osarusan


    Whatever else he achieved is inevitably diminished and tainted by the lies he told the UN in that box-ticking sham of a Security Council meeting.

    He must have known that he would have no integrity left after that, but he did it anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,277 ✭✭✭✭ Gatling


    To go from being on the verge of true Greatness and possibly a dead cert president to fronting the **** show wmd claims,he should have walked away and held on to his honour and respect .

    Deserves to be honoured but it's unfortunately tainted

    Langley , Virginia



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,619 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    I don't disagree tbh. My own thrust is rather to illustrate the legacy the man threw away and popularity that prior to the WMD debacle that could have seen him honestly romp home if he had chosen to run for office.

    He was the last of the real Warrior-Diplomats the US has produced and he threw it away for Bush 2 and a lie that killed 100's of 1000's.

    This is a man who prior to that? IMO could have ranked alongside Eisenhower and Marshal, yet cast it away and much of the current state of the political world and practically all of the M.E and central Asia issues plaguing world security policy? Stem from not just the US decision to pursue a dodgy war, but Powell's selling it with his reputation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,908 ✭✭✭✭ leahyl




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,067 ✭✭✭ ceadaoin.


    He was fully vaccinated. I dont think him dying has anything to do with his political affiliations, more old age and poor health.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,476 ✭✭✭ Yurt2


    As others have said, the US intelligence community (the Bush family are a family steeped in the CIA with a score to settle against Hussain) duped the guy and traded off his name to deliver the fabricated intelligence. Powell was a patriot who took them at face value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,489 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    I'm pretty sure the story is that he knew it was a lie going into the UN so he wasn't duped



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,277 ✭✭✭✭ Gatling


    He was actually being treated for a cancer of the blood among other health issues

    Langley , Virginia



  • Registered Users Posts: 756 ✭✭✭ GeneHunt


    If anything, it's the Anti Vaxers will point to his death, and see it as proof that the vaccine is a hoax...

    IMO Powell was tainted by the W.M.D. but to be fair, the man was out numbered in the "W" Bush Whitehouse, at that time anyone in the US that showed restraint or spoke out against the coming war, was targeted as traitors - Barbara Lee comes to mind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭ buried


    I'd love to see this supposed 'legacy' that this lad had to 'taint' in the first place, because being an ingrained cog of one of the most murderous, violent, hypocritical and disgraceful regimes to have ever shat all over the face of the entire planet doesn't give you much of a 'legacy' to begin with.

    "Lunar South is Solar East" - W. B. Yeats



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  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭ jackhammer


    He produced a whitewash of a report into the My Lai massacre. That said enough for his lack of integrity and honour 30 years prior to his WMD presentation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,863 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr


    A lot of Kurds and Shia will remember him fondly

    Iraq now a democracy rather than a dictatorship, obviously that pales into insignficance when compared to the opprobrium of beatniks



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭ joseywhales


    I agree with you but as a soldier he takes orders from the commander in chief, he was not a politician. Therefore have a actions at the un could be seen as a soldier following orders.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,866 ✭✭✭✭ MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    War monger.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,277 ✭✭✭✭ Gatling


    Langley , Virginia



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,717 ✭✭✭ screamer


    Absolutely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,589 ✭✭✭✭ Rjd2


    Evil man who like so many of the Bush era neocons never faced any sort of reckoning for his role in the Iraq war and the death of so many.





  • Registered Users Posts: 16,489 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985




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