Aupair problems

Starpath

I couldn't find a topic for childcare so I hope it's OK to post here.

Epic Post Alert........

I'd like some advice please - our 20 year old aupair arrived 2 weeks ago and she has been welcomed into the family as if she were our daughter. Her English isn't great and thank God for Google Translate! We organised and paid for private english classes, got her involved in clubs etc so that she could continue to enjoy her hobbies whilst in Ireland (she didn't ask us to do this but based on her regular activities as indicated on her profile we presented her with our findings and asked would she like to do any of these etc). 

Her pocket money is well above minimum wage and is based on hours per month although she gets paid the same weekly as some weeks she may be required to work for a few hours and another week could be a full day or two. If asked to work after 9pm or at weekend (not obliged) should we decide to go out she will be paid extra)  She doesn't work Saturday and Sunday but was informed before she came that if she was here at weekends she would be expected to tidy up after meals along with everyone else since she was considered a family member. She has been asked to help with light daily housework and to have the open plan kitchen/dining/tv area clean and tidy (as in sweep floor and clean the crumbs and spills on the counter, dishwasher) when I get home from work, do homework/supervise the children (3rd class, first class, seniors), 1+2 =3 and spell Cat etc get the dinner ready on days I am late. Everything is left out and easy - no brainer things like spaghetti bol with Dolmio and we discuss it the night before so she knows how to do.

My husband works from home and my youngest child has been out of preschool with a cold for a few days. I came home at 5 and breakfast dishes were still on the counter and kitchen table, she had apparently spent the day in her room and left my youngest watching TV all day.  He said she is just wandering around in the mornings and it's left up to him to get them ready for school.

I have asked her twice to help and explained that she needed to interact with the children and I have suggested ways and means of getting them to want to be in her company. I have checked with her daily that she is happy and is she feeling homesick etc but always says she is very happy. She has no interest in my children or helping around the kitchen, she appears to have no experience whatsoever in cooking anything that can't be put in a microwave.... my children have kind of given up trying now. She didn't bother attending my daughters birthday party other than coming out of her room for the cake. My older son was bored during the party and asked her would she come out to the garden to play football, which she enjoys she said no she was watching a movie on her laptop. He was hurt and disappointed, his shoulders went down and I felt so sorry for him. Would it have killed her to pause the movie? Yes it was her day off but I wasn't asking her to work. For a girl who said she wanted to be one of the family and loved children etc..... myself and my husband feel like we couldn't have done much more to make her feel at home and that she is just here for free accommodation and some pocket money. She has met up with another aupair and was told she could invite her and her children to the party.

She has asked could she go and meet an aupair who lives about 30km away and would I drive her - she did not know this girl, but she had a friend request from her, had no details about the family, was going to stay with a friend of the other aupairs overnight and I could I pick her up the following evening. To us it sounded a bit dodgy and if she were our daughter I would have said no way. I asked her to ring her mother for her opinion. Her mother wasn't happy either. I pointed out not only was it unsafe but with covid it was extremely risky and we were not happy with the prospect of possible infection etc. She accepted this but I'm seeing her more as a child now.

I'm not sure if I am expecting too much? We live in a rural location, walking distance to village, I drive her to all her activities and wait for her as I would for my own children.

She is a lovely girl and I'm very fond of her and have made a huge effort. She gets a hug and a thank you every evening before I go to bed, she is always included or invited to do things but where do we go from here? Thanks

Buddy Bubs

Very difficult to treat a 20 year old as a child and expect her to treat you as her parents. She's an adult employee living in your home. It's a tricky situation, quite difficult to match expectations on both sides. As a 20 year old she will want to be out enjoying herself,meeting boys, hanging with her peers.

Starpath

I know what you mean. Her mother spoke to me and thanked me etc while we were arranging her travel etc and I suppose it made me feel very responsible for her. I have no problem with her meeting girls and boys etc, my primary concern was for her safety. If anything happened to her and it was 7pm the following evening before I realised she was missing.... there are lots of aupairs around, they meet up at weekends, go sightseeing, sometimes stay in hostels etc but I would know some of the families and feel more comfortable about the situation. She is out first aupair and wanted to be like a big sister so I suppose we treat her as one 🙈 should I change my approach now or will that just seem really mean? I was afraid if she felt homesick she would leave

notAMember

She is not fitting in and sounds like she has been brought a different way in her home family to be honest. Does she refuse to tidy up after herself at home? Hides in room with laptop? You expect an older sister in your family and she expects to be a lodger.

It sounds like this your first au pair. Cut yourself some slack here, sometimes you just find someone who doesn’t fit in with your family.

Speaking as someone who had 5 au pairs over the years, sometimes you get someone who doesn’t work out. Line up someone else and give her her notice rather than breaking your heart trying to change her.

[Deleted User]

It sounds like she's not a natural/ideal au pair, and perhaps not a good fit for your family, but I don't think this is just on her.

Firstly, the hiring - it seems like she wasn't required to have good English, or a driver's licence, or cooking experience. Did you look for prior au pairing experience from her, ask her how she normally interacts with clients, what kind of food she'd be able to cook, how she envisaged her duties in the home and her balance of work/life during her stay? Did you get references? It sounds like maybe this is her first au pair experience. Did you document everything you expect from her, and was this detailed?

For example, you mentioned your youngest said that she wanders around in the mornings and he gets himself ready for school. She's up and out of bed so clearly she knows this is something she's suppose to be involved in. However if this task was documented as 'get them ready for school', you might have imagined clothes being laid out, shoes being tied, hair being brushed, everything down to putting his toothpaste on his brush for him and asking him what he's excited about today. To her, it may have just meant 'be up, watch them, make sure they get out on time'.

Next, your expectations - I think we've all fallen foul of situations like this before. In an attempt to foster goodwill and a good relationship, you've been giving her things above and beyond what's required from you. But what we often lose sight of in these situations is: a) she hasn't asked for these things, b) she might not even want them and c) giving her extra doesn't oblige her to give you anything extra. You're treating her like a family member instead of as a worker in the home, and then you're feeling offended/disappointed when she treats your kids like work. This isn't healthy for either of you, and will lead to stress and disappointment on both sides.

Again as an example, you've welcomed her as one of the family, organised activities for her, drive her and wait outside for her, paid for English classes, and hug her every night. Usually 'one of the family' is said as a pleasantry, whereas you've taken it very literally. Being honest, this is very odd. I realise lines can blur easily with an au pair, but I think you need to reassess the fact that this is someone working for you. So you've given her all this extra care, beyond what you'd give an employee, and then she doesn't show an interest in attending your daughter's party. She doesn't even play football with your son. You say "Yes it was her day of but I wasn't asking her to work". You were! That's her work. What seemed to you as quite rude was actually her setting quite a healthy work/life boundary.

myself and my husband feel like we couldn't have done much more to make her feel at home and that she is just here for free accommodation and some pocket money.

Let's be very clear. She is 100% here for accommodation and pocket money. That's the deal. It's up to you to decide whether it's 'free' or not. You decide what you require from her, and those requirements should always be treated as 'work'. She should then be compensated in room, board, and payment. If a relationship forms outside of that over time, great, but you can't just impose this close familial relationship on her and expect her to respond by taking on a familial-level duty of care for your kids and your home. It needs to be treated as a job first and foremost, with defined expectations and boundaries.

You said that some weeks she works a few hours but others she could be working for a full day or two. That just doesn't track with the other things you've said, that she should be getting them ready for school in the mornings, helping with light daily housework, keeping the kitchen, dining and tv area clean and tidy, filling and emptying the dishwasher, doing the kids' homework with them, supervising them, getting dinner ready on days you're home late. You also want her to have an interest in playing with them - this is not just a few hours work, and it certainly is work, but it doesn't sound like you really see it that way.

I feel like this post might come across quite harsh; I hope you don't take it that way. I totally sympathise that you've put a lot into this and you're not getting the same amount of effort back.

HildaOgdenx

Not much to add to what previous posters have said. It's not working out, and that happens sometimes.

I was afraid if she felt homesick she would leave.

But really, would it be any loss, if she did leave? It sounds like she is creating more work and stress, for you, rather than helping in any way.

Starpath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031952#Comment_118031952

I really appreciate your comment and yes it is a bit harsh but in a constructive way and you obviously put thought into everything I said and it has been really helpful. I see where we have gone wrong and that our expectations were more that of a student- we had them in our home when I was a child and I suppose I was thinking of a similar dynamic. All is not lost, I will back off playing mammy for a start. She was given a very detailed list before she came, as we're all the aupairs we interviewed. We explained the mornings, and homework etc and generally the food she would be required to cook - we need she was new to aupairing and her English wasn't the best but her interests etc seem to really fit with ours. That's I suppose why we chose her. I think over the next week I can distance myself a bit. I dont want to look like I've had a personality transplant and turn sergeant major on her in the morning! I will make up a proper schedule amd go through it with her. She met up with some other aupairs today and us meeting them again next weekend so maybe it will all fall into place. Thanks again

[Deleted User]

Haven't read the OP in full, skip read. Is there anything I'm missing as to why the arrangement isn't simply terminated?

Flinty997

Yeah I'm similarly confused. It's a job. She's not doing it. Isn't that simple or am I missing something.

California Dreamer

Agree with 2 previous posters. I don't think that you are being unreasonable in anything that you ask but the basic neglect of your pre-schooler in my mind would be grounds for GTFO of my house.

I think you are giving her far more slack than most people that I have ever known who have had Au Pairs.

bucketybuck

Stop treating her like a child, start treating her as an employee.

That doesn't mean treat her like dirt, but at times the OP sounds like it should be in a family issues forum.

Neyite

I agree with all that's been said by others but wanted to ask about this:

My husband works from home and my youngest child has been out of preschool with a cold for a few days. I came home at 5 and breakfast dishes were still on the counter and kitchen table, she had apparently spent the day in her room and left my youngest watching TV all day. He said she is just wandering around in the mornings and it's left up to him to get them ready for school.

Um, why was he not addressing this during the day? Isn't he her employer too? What prevented him from knocking on her bedroom door and reminding her that she needed to get the kids ready for school and supervise the youngest while he's working? Why was it all left to you when you walked in the door to deal with?

RocketRaccoon

I'm in utter disbelief that Irish people hire a nanny.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141816#Comment_118141816

Shur, wouldn't they be well and good cuddling up to the pig in the parlour for a bitten of warmth.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141816#Comment_118141816

Why? Depending on the situation it could well be cheaper than sending them off to childcare

RocketRaccoon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141928#Comment_118141928

I find that highly unlikely considering wages, food, bills etc.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141816#Comment_118141816

Why?

In home care is almost always better than institutional care. And au pairs offer a cost effective way to do this, while providing young people a way to experience the world.

cruizer101

Childcare for 3 kids part-time could be 3-400 per week.

Au pair OP doesn't say but say they are working 20 hours a week plus bit extra for food its at least a comparable amount and not an extravagance, plus it has other advantages above childcare.

You didn't say why you were in disbelief so I assumed it was based on cost, maybe you have other reasons.

OMM 0000

She doesn't seem to understand what her job is.

I think it's time to stop playing mama and start playing manager.

Sit her down with a list of her responsibilities and go through them one by one.

If she continues to refuse doing her job, just fire her.

From the sounds of things you've gotten a dud and things are not going to improve.

mrslancaster

Just saw this thread. OP there is an European Agreement on Au-Pairs, Council of Europe Treaty 068 since 1969 before we even joined the EU. Afaik, Ireland has never signed up to it and I only know about it because we had au-pairs a few years ago and the agency we used was run by a Spanish woman. She placed au-pairs from Spain, France and Italy and they had all ratified the treaty and she was very knowledgable and strict about the rules for au-pairs.

According to the Treaty, an au-pair is neither a domestic worker or a student but a separate category, must be female and aged between 17-30, contract should be for 1 year but can be extended to 2, own room, participate in day-to-day family duties or activities, max 5 hours per day, full day off at w/e plus time during the week to attend language classes. There are other things as well but those are the main points.

When we enquired about an au-pair, we were told straight away that any girl placed with us would not be a house-keeper, nanny or sole carer for the kids. We had to work out a schedule that suited us both around class-times, and weekends were free time for meeting friends, sightseeing, cultural activities etc. For example, say we needed a babysitter for an evening then that was the hours for that day etc.

So I think your idea of a person who would be part of the family is the way many people think an au-pair agreement works. Maybe you can look again at your agreement and change it around a bit to suit you both if you want the 'part of the family' arrangement.

If it's more strictly an employer/employee agreement, that must comply with Labour legislation as you are employing a live-in domestic or houskeeper or nanny and it's a different relationship. Your girl is yhen entitled to holiday pay, minimum wage, PRSI etc etc, and you should be registered as an employer, pay ER PRSI and keep records of hours worked and other regulations. If she has sole care of the children, imo, she would also need some training in childcare.

This is a link to the Treaty in case you're interested. Have a look at the Model Text and the Annexes for information.

https://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list?module=treaty-detail&treatynum=068

whippet

it's a strange one - and in reality you are dealing in the main with teenagers who are looking to gain some life experience and learn English and travel,

We had a German aupair about 6 years back .. she stayed for a year.

We really only needed her for the school run in the morning and afternoon and making some after school food for the kids. We quickly learned that she hadn't a clue how to cook ..but that wasn't an issue as I did most of the cooking anyway and she always did the after dinner tidy up.

She was insured on our cars so was independent and often took the kids out on her own for walks on the beach with dogs. I thought she would go back to Germany for Christmas but she really wanted to enjoy and Irish Christmas. By the end of the year she really was like a daughter to us and a big sister to our kids. We have kept in touch since and she visits once or twice a year and we have visited her and her parents in Germany a few times.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118229125#Comment_118229125

According to Citizens Information and the WRC Au-pairs are classed as domestic workers.

From Citizens Information.....

What is a domestic worker?

A domestic worker is someone who is employed to carry out duties in a private home, such as cleaning, cooking, childminding, driving and gardening. Other duties can include the care of older people or people with disabilities. Care assistants and home helps are types of domestic workers.

Domestic workers can work part-time or full-time. Generally, they are hired directly by the homeowners. Some domestic workers also live with their employer, for example, au pairs.

People working in other people’s home have broadly the same employment rights as other workers, including the right to a contract, minimum wage, holidays, and a payslip. This page explains the rights of domestic workers, including tax obligations.

....

Also from the Workplace Relations Commission:

Domestic Workers - Workplace Relations Commission.

There have also been cases of Aupairs going to the WRC for being underpaid and winning their cases e.g.

Update: Labour Court Confirms Rights of Au Pairs as Employees (williamfry.com)