Garden Shed Build

almostover

Looking for some advice on a garden shed build. Will be moving into a new house in the next month and want to build a garden shed. House is in an estate, semi-d with 900mm wide side passage and a wettish back garden. There a 10ft high block wall at the back of the garden and standard concrete post with wooden fence panel inserts on either side. The garden is approx. 13m long x 6m wide.

Initially was going to build a small 6'x4' shed to house lawnmower and other outdoor items for the short term while I saved up to build a small concrete block workshop / office but am now thinking it's best to build the final shed that i want and not have the 6'x4' shed in the interim. Also now thinking I'll do a timber frame shed because I've zero experience of laying blockwork but am competent when it comes to building with wood. Also, have a brother in law who's a carpenter, is willing to help, is suggesting a timber frame shed and has scavenged some wood from a site he was on. A few questions that I have for the DIY forum aficionados and those who have embarked on similar projects:

1. How big should the garden shed be? I want it to be used for general outdoor storage (lawnmower, golf clubs, BBQ, paint tins, garden tools, tools etc.), plus space for a small home workshop (workbench, mitre saw station etc.) and perhaps if it is viable to have a home office desk out there in the event I need the box room in the house for a child's bedroom. Also conscious that the garden isn't huge and my partner would be too pleased if the entire garden becomes my man cave. Thinking a 16' x 12' might give the required balance of being big enough but not too big, but am seeking advice on this.
2. What base should be used? Brother in law is proposing a suspended timber framed floor mounted on paving slabs or blockwork. He is saying it would be warm and dry. Given that the garden isn't the most free draining I'm more inclined to pour a concrete base 3-4" thick on DPC and have that as a base. Would that lead to a cold damp floor? My concerns with the timber frame base is vermin nesting underneath and possible movement of the foundation blocks / paving slabs.
3. What is the best way to clad the shed? I want the shed to be dry, don't want my tools / lawnmower / BBQ rusting away every winter in there. I have heard steel clad sheds can have condensation issues. Brother in law seems to favour the steel cladding but I'm unsure. It's strong and low maintenance but I'm worried about condensation. Are there better cladding options? Wood is maintenance heavy, maybe PVC?

Anyway, just looking for some general tips or pro / cons before embarking on this project. Any genuine input is welcome

Lumen

Budget?

Purgative

Hi Almost

1. They are never big enough. I had a 4x3 put up in 2019. Its full and sometimes I think maybe I should have gone an extra metre of two, but it would still be full. In the end you have to balance the amount space and money you have and go with it. There's no perfect size but make too big with poor lighting you'll lose stuff in the back of the shed.
2. 
   

My concerns with the timber frame base is vermin nesting underneath and possible movement of the foundation blocks / paving slabs.

Yep very valid concern. My own preference is 4" of concrete with DPM.

3 You can get corrugated that is "fur lined" (not the official term) I have it on the shed and the barn - no condensation.

Best of luck hopefully you get some more replies

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009814#Comment_118009814

Fair question, haven't given that part enough thought yet. To be honest I see this as an evolving project over time, put down a slab 1st, frame and clad to make weather tight then, then start with the embellishments such as insulation, internal ply, electrical supply, lights etc after that. A 17' x 10' uninsulated Steeltech shed is €4,300 at present. I'd be hoping to do something of similar size in the region of €2-3k. Let me know if I'm stone mad with that budget, I'm not in the construction trade so I'm not 100% sure on the cost of things. I'm only hearing the same anecdotes as everyone else, that building material prices have skyrocketed.

My saving grace is the brother in law is good for scavenging off cuts and leftover from sites he's on. Hoping to make use of upcycling those materials as much as possible.

Would €2.5k for example build a weather tight 16' x 12' shed in timber frame with 4" concrete base? I'd build in stages anyway to spread out the cost if needs be. Would rather it take longer and have everything I have than build something that I want to tear down again in 2-3 years

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010236#Comment_118010236

Thanks, that's good advice.

1. It's the same with money too, if you have more you'll spend more. Same with space, the more you have the more sh*te you'll accumulate and store. I'll have to mark out the garden when we move in with some string and posts and let that decide what size will work for me.
2. I think I'll do the concrete base, it'll be worth it in the long run. I've laid a large haybarn slab in the past with the old fella and it's all in the prep. Guessing most readymix companies can pump to a semi D back garden now? The thought of wheelbarrowing concrete around the side of the house isn't too appealing.
3. Anti-condensation cladding it appears to be called according to google. Still unsure about corrugated metal cladding. Might go for PVC or fibre cement cladding if the budget allows.

air

I built a 5m x 3m (external) timber shed about 14 years ago.

Like you plan to, I poured a concrete base, the stud walls sit on the perimeter and the cladding overhangs the base. I'm not a fan of suspended floors for all the reasons you have mentioned and a few more.

My cladding is 1in thick pressure treated boards that are about 220mm wide with 2x1s nailed vertically over the joints. It has been very low maintenance, has just had maybe 3 coats of cheap paint and is still in very close to the same condition that it was when it was put on. The key to longevity is keeping it dry (raised base) and being pressure treated in the first place. Proper thick boards are a big help too obviously, the cladding used on the commercial wooden sheds is paper thin to keep cost down.

I roofed it in tile effect steel cladding which has been a great job.

Overall I'm very happy with it and it has performed very well.

The only thing I would change if I built it again would be that I would sheath the outside in plywood instead of using noggins and use this as the air tightness layer.

A friend build his like this and it was very successful, he taped all the joints on the ply and used a different specialist tape to tape the ply to the foundation.

Air tightness is the key to avoiding damp in a shed, the contents don't release moisture like a house.

I think mine cost me 3-4k back then, I think you would need to budget at least 5k for your quoted size even allowing for the scavenging etc.

For my friends shed we built the walls in sections and stacked them, then erected them at a later date.

This was a great job and means you can work away piecemeal and cover the walls until you have them all built and are ready to erect them some fine day.

I would also highly recommend a nail gun for the framing. My friend bought a pneumatic one that wasn't much more than 120 euro or so, drives 90mm nails and ran perfectly of a Lidl / Aldi compressor. A huge labour saver. Also used it with smaller nails for fixing the OSB to the studs. That and a chop saw will do most of the work very efficiently.

Hope that helps.

Lumen

With the cost of materials now you'll need to be absolutely ruthless with cost control.

I suggest you start with a "bill of materials" spreadsheet/list and put everything on it, down to the nails and screws. You'll be amazed how much it all adds up.

I think mine cost 1k to wire up to the house, and that was a nixer.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010443#Comment_118010443

That does help a lot. Plenty of good advice in there. Think I need to reevaluate for now. I'll have to get a smaller storage shed / bunker to get us started and tackle the larger shed project over a greater period of time. The budget is just too tight right now with buying the house and the various other items that'll be needed. Need to do my maths at the weekend!

looksee

Just on the size, I was looking at my shed which is about 17ft x 12 I think, which seems big but it very quickly gets cluttered up.

For storing tools etc the most useful space is wall space, even the mowers are better tucked up against a wall as they take up much more room floating round the middle. The mitre saw starts off in one place but then has to be moved to accommodate longer lengths of timber, and doesn't get put back (well mine doesn't) and more wall type storage for the other tools.

A work station in the middle of the floor with loads of space around would be grand if you had a hanger sized basement (if you are in the US) or barn but most of us don't, so again, it goes against the wall.

What I am wafflingly getting round to is, could you do a longer, somewhat narrower shed with a door at each end maybe, to give you more usable space, rather than a 'bit too wide to be useful, but not wide enough to use', especially if you are looking at a desk in there too - sawdust and computers might not be the best mix and I suggest a second, smaller, better insulated shed if you discover you really do need a home office. Maybe even make enough of a concrete pad to put one up later at the end of the shed you are building?

Purgative

@looksee has some excellent points. Mitre saws in a work station are going to come up against limits of the work they can do. I tried that years ago. These days mine sits under the bench and gets mounted on a fold able sawtable, or screwed to a makeshift table (old sheet of shuttering screwed to a couple of trestles).

The point about sawdust and computers is an important one as well

dodzy

"Would €2.5k for example build a weather tight 16' x 12' shed in timber frame with 4" concrete base?"

With the price of materials these days, no chance. I spent just shy of €4,300 on a 19 x 10' last summer, when materials were far cheaper. It really depends on how far you want to go in terms of finishing.

Best advice I could give (you're good with wood by your own admission), would be to measure, sketch out & price. Then you'll at least have an idea where you stand.

jack of all

As others have suggested I would recommend dividing the shed to keep gardening stuff separated from the workshop part. I built a timber stud partition to divide my 20 x 12 shed, so I now have a 5x 12' section which is home to all the gardening tools, bikes and has some racking shelving for storage of paints etc. It's chock a bloc with stuff but it works. The workshop part is full too and no matter how big you build it will never be big enough, so build as big as you can afford! If you are going to be spending anytime in it definitely invest in insulation and consider how you will heat and ventilate it- no joy in trying to work in a cold space or watching your tools slowly rust!