CCTV level crossings - how do they work?

daymobrew

I live near Coolmine level crossing (Dublin 15, Maynooth line) and the DART+ West project is a hot topic, especially the proposed closing of that level crossing. Right now people complain that the barriers are closed for an excessive amount of time. I said it was because the crossing is adjacent to the station (trains are slow to start and stop) and Irish Rail's large safety margins.

One person said that the lowering of barriers here is manual, by someone in the control room in Connolly. I say different.

I believe that when a train crosses a trigger point the barrier closing process begins automatically. When closed CCTV is used to confirm that the crossing is clear and the control room changes the signal to allow a train to proceed.

Which of us is correct?

On a related note, is it feasible (and is it likely) that the barrier close times could be reduced by signalling changes and reducing track section lengths?

Would it be possible (and work Irish Rail every do it) to fully automate a level crossing to remove the CCTV interaction?

DoctorPan

So there are some manually operated gates on the Maynooth line but I think they are just limited to Ashtown I think (But open to correction).

Automatic level crossings work as you described, a train approaching the level crossing passes over a sensor that triggers the closing sequence (strike in point). Likewise there's a strike out point on the other side of the crossing that the train passes over to trigger the opening seqeunce. Once the gates are shut, a signaller in CTC will check the cameras at the crossing to see if the area is clear before clearing the signal. The reason the gates have such long close times is that they have to be closed before the train enters the section before them to allow for the case that a train passes the signal protecting the level crossing at danager (aka SPADing).

The only feasible way to reduce barrier close times is to reduce line speed to reduce the distance a train can overrun a red signal. However that is extremely unlikely as you are downgrading public transport to benefit private transport.

Also you're never going to get rid of the CCTV aspect as there isn't a way to verfiy that there is no trapped cars or pedestrains between the barriers

Glaceon

Clonsilla was (might still be?) manually operated by a large wheel from the old signal box.

ozmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973590#Comment_117973590

Yes - you can see the station master turning the wheel to open the gates - he's usually fairly quick...

Ashtown though... that's another matter - its also manual - but only when the train has passed will the station master leave his hut and start the walk across the yard to the gates to open them... maybe he has to check cctv before he leaves his hut or something - but it adds a few minutes to the closing of the road each train pass.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973609#Comment_117973609

I think that he uses a phone in the hut to indicate that the crossing is safe for a train to pass i.e. if it is off the hook it's safe, if not then the crossing is open for cars. Only a step above using a wooden 'staff' for signalling.

goingnowhere

The manual gates work as follows

• A bell rings or in the case of some crossings the signalman calls by phone (this is the internal IE phone system)
• Operator goes out
• Closes gates
• Each gate have a key this is removable when the gate is closed to the road
• Keys go into a mechanism in the hut
• Depending on the setup a lever is pulled, this only possible if the keys have been provided
• This clears the signal

Clonsilla is similar, the wheel opens/closes the crossing, when closed you pull a level in the old cabin, this is interlocked so only releases when the gates are closed and this trips a relay in the new signalling

The automatic gates on the Maynooth line operate on a fixed strike in point, on the current DART line there isn't really a strike in point. Each train type has one of six priorities, DART's are assigned the lowest in the system. Based on the train type the signalling system schedules the request for the gates to 'optimise' the sequence, this works well for mid section crossings and if multiple crossings are stacked on top of each other, i.e Lansdowne Booterstown. This setup adds several minutes to each Bray Howth journey as DART are constantly seeing yellow and even red signals so are forced to crawl along.

When the CCTV gates on any route complete the sequence and closes, in the controlling signal box (typically Connolly, Athlone or Mallow) a buzzer goes off, the signaller reviews the live CCTV and if visibly the gates are down, safe and clear they push two buttons together.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973609#Comment_117973609

Wrong terminology here.

It’s certainly not the “station master”.

It’s the gatekeeper who operates manual level crossing gates.

embraer170

People should check out level crossings in Germany and the Netherlands to see them done properly.

I cross a level crossing on a very busy mainline on my drive to work. No CCTV or other nanny state monitoring systems that I am aware of. The level crossing is close to a road junction so there is normally a queue of traffic in the morning making things more tricky.

Cars are always careful to make sure the level crossing is clear before moving forward. Lights go red, barriers go down a few seconds later, a fairly fast moving train passes by 15 or so seconds later, and up goes the barrier. The whole thing takes less than a minute.

I cringe at people sitting at level crossings in Dublin for 3-5 minutes.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397765#Comment_118397765

"Cars are always careful to make sure the level crossing is clear before moving forward." - this does not happen here, hence the cameras and manual monitoring. Like delays between sequences at traffic lights, the long times between closing barriers and trains does 'encourage' bad driver behaviour which then requires camera and manual monitoring to prevent collisions. It's a bit of chicken and egg but I still think we need them in Ireland.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397765#Comment_118397765

People here can't be trusted not to do the time-honoured Irish arm chancing.

The likelihood of getting recorded and caught is about the only thing people take notice of and even then..

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414672#Comment_118414672

Don't know why they do take notice when IE don't prosecute over level crossing incidents. Not a single successful case taken or won!

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418986#Comment_118418986

Really? Sounds a bit crazy to not prosecute. Can Gardaí not level a charge of careless driving? The motorists insurance surely pays for the damage, right?

embraer170

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418986#Comment_118418986

Forget the CCTV and 5 minute gate closures and see a few cars wrecked by fast passing trains, and you might have people respect the crossings a little more. It is a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

I do accept such an approach would be difficult with the current insurance situation, H&S regulations, ambulance chasing lawyers, and general nanny state approach.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419474#Comment_118419474

Why would it be difficult?

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418986#Comment_118418986

There's a good reason why they don't.

Level crossing collisions and incidents are road traffic offences and are prosecuted by the Gardaí/DPP, not Irish Rail.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433189#Comment_118433189

Irish Rail should be claiming back damages from the driver's insurance. I hope that they are doing that, but I don't think that the cameras, which are high up, are good at seeing registration plates.

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433649#Comment_118433649

Who said that they aren't doing this?

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433943#Comment_118433943

No one said either way.

goingnowhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433649#Comment_118433649

There are special cameras fitted at select crossings to capture number plates

Any claim made against the driver would be dealt with through solicitors who likely would have the classic we will pay but no public admission, not the courts so no public record

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433189#Comment_118433189

LD, you are right but lets be honest here my initial point of zero convictions stands.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442776#Comment_118442776

Again pointless, any claim made by Irish Rail wouldn't cover the disruption. I would be surprised if they go after private motorists. Yeah they might have got a couple of thousand from HGV incidents.

All CCTV crossings should have AMPR fitted and any gaps in legislation corrected. Irish Rail are not vocal enough about these issues. Instead of the annual 60 second video clip on incidents prehaps work harder behind the scenes.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443795#Comment_118443795

If a traffic reporting portal is created (not holding my breath), then Irish Rail could report the incidents to it and let the Gardai handle the dangerous driving ticket/conviction, while Irish Rail separately deal with damages.

goingnowhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443795#Comment_118443795

Two cases here

1. Criminal act under the Rail Safety Act 2005. This is public and will get picked up in the district court and typically Irish Rail will present a figure for the cost in terms of repair and revenue loss as part of the case.
2. Civil action by Irish Rail vs driver/owner of the vehicle will likely be settled between insurance company and Irish Rail before it even gets to a court date as the insurance company has no way out given the CCTV evidence. The claim would be for the repair + revenue lost

All 4 barrier crossings have 2 CCTV cameras and those which are repeat locations for damage have cameras in place to capture registration plates which the primary cameras are not positioned to do