Camper conversion burnt out, should I claim insurance or sue the person who did it?

salad17

So my brothers camper conversion (a large minibus) was burnt out last night, luckily he wasn't staying in it.

The arsonist was burning out his own car, possibly for some insurance claim, right next to the camper at a massive beach carpark with no one else there. Maybe he just wanted a bigger fire. He is now in custody.

The insurance company says "we'll take care of it, put in a claim under comprehensive insurance", but likely will massively undervalue the vehicle.

It would have easily sold for €10,000 on todays market, but when converting to a camper a few years ago for VRT was valued about 3500 as a vehicle. The Garda seemed surprised that the insurance company suggested to go comprehensive rather than making a claim against the person. Maybe they want to pay out the minimum and go after him for more for themselves?

What is the best option?

And can anyone suggest a solicitor or at least where to start looking for one for this type of thing?

Thanks!

L1011

Someone burning something out for an insurance claim is unlikely to have any money to begin with.

What is the vehicle insured for?

salad17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955769#Comment_117955769

Yes quite possibly, what would normally happen if someone is awarded damages but the person can't pay? Is it spread out?

I'm not sure what he put the value of the vehicle as, but likely quite low.

L1011

Judgement never gets satisfied. No money and your own legal bills to pay.

theguzman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956128#Comment_117956128

What would happen for example if an arsonist went crazy say at 19 and commited a crime like this but subsequently went on the straight and narrow and 10 years later had a good job with savings and maybe inherited a house or money etc? Can something like this come back to haunt a criminal or someone who committed such a crime or is there a statute of limitations on certain crimes?

Peregrinus

Arson may be a crime, but if you are looking to be compensated by the arsonist you're in the civil courts. In most cases the limitation period for a civil action is six years from when the cause of action accrued, so you need to commence your court proceedings against the arsonist not later than six years after he started the fire. Realistically, though, you really want to do it much sooner than that; the longer that elapses before the trial the more difficult it will be for you to prove your case - witnesses move house and you may find them harder to trace, their recollection of what happened becomes vaguer over time, etc.

Once you get your judgement and award of damages, you then have 12 years to enforce that. If at the time of the judgment the guy has no assets against which you can enforce your judgment, it's up to you to monitor the situation and be aware of when his circumstances change; nobody is going to do that for you, and he certainly won't mention it to you.

Caranica

Usually if you claim from your insurance they go after the other party?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957574#Comment_117957574

Usually not, unless the other party is insured.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957574#Comment_117957574

The insurance have the option of doing it. I would claim from the insurance rather than having the expense of court proceedings.

If the other driver was trying to make an insurance claim there may be a policy in force on his vehicle and your insurance will recoup the money.

Casati

Presumably the fire spread from his car to the van - in that case claim off the insurance on the car. If the car wasn't insured then you are seeking redress from Motor Insurers' Bureau of Ireland who provide cover on uninsured vehicles. If he claims off his own comprehensive insurance he will lose his no claims

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959549#Comment_117959549

I think this is the best option to try to get compensation without affecting the op's own insurance.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959549#Comment_117959549

Insurance and the MIBI only cover the negligent use of the motor vehicle. The criminal use of a vehicle is not covered. far better to let the comprehensive insurance deal with it. I hope the o/p has a good broker.

Victor

"It would have easily sold for €10,000 on todays market, but when converting to a camper a few years ago for VRT was valued about 3500 as a vehicle." Valuation for VRT is somewhat irrelevant. Did your brother insure it as a fully fitted-out camper conversion or a minibus?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959549#Comment_117959549

If he set the fire deliberately he cannot claim off his own insurance. Your insurer is not going to indemnify you from the consequences of your own criminal attempt to defraud your insurer.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959704#Comment_117959704

Are you sure about MIBI - I have a mate who claimed off them when a stolen car crashed into his car. Stolen car = criminal use of a vehicle?

The OP's mate claiming off his own insurance could cause his NCB to be lost, surely he should do everything possible in the first instance to avoid this as he will be paying massive premiums for years to come through no fault of his own. He would also have been recorded as making a claim off his insurance which will make it much harder to get quotes. The very last thing I would be doing is claiming off my own insurance if I was not at fault.

I agree that the lad who set fire to his car is unlikely to get far claiming for damage to his own car, assuming the insurance company know the facts, but even though he was potentially engaged in a criminal act, his insurance company would still have to honour third party liability.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961896#Comment_117961896

It wasn't the theft of the car which caused the damage but the negligent driving of it.

POBox19

What a nightmare, thankfully no body was injured. If the arsonist was burning their car for the insurance then I assume that they had insurance and as minimum third party fire & theft. Because of the arson their policy will likely not pay out on the damage for the car, but will be obliged to settle a claim, from a third party, for damage to the camper. The camper's insurance would usually manage the claim with the other company so in the end the NCB may not be lost.

Post a photo of the aftermath of the inferno.

salad17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957414#Comment_117957414

Thanks, that's good to know.

Yes claiming off the insurance definitely seems the easiest, I just don't trust the insurance companies and imagine they will do their best to pay out the absolute minimum! They did say it won't affect his no claims bonus.

It is insured as a fully converted camper, not as the bus it originally was.

The arsonist has been transferred from custody to a psych ward so I don't think going down that path will be fruitful anymore.

He parked his car right next to the camper in a massive beach carpark/field so it's hard to imagine he didn't do it a bit on purpose, and when the police/firemen showed up he was just standing next to the inferno. Very lucky no one was in it, the curtains were all drawn so theres no way anyone could have checked before starting the fire. The firemen were likely looking for a body when they put the fire out, must have been a bit grim for them, I mean you would assume someone was sleeping in it.

Don't know anything about the guy, just his name which the gardai reluctantly gave my brother to give to the insurance company. Some expensive sports equipment in there as well.

I will post a photo later (what's the best way to post a photo in here btw, it always seems to just put a link?)

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962815#Comment_117962815

The 3rd party's insurance will not respond as it was a deliberate act. In addition, insurers are only compelled to satisfy your loss if it was the result of an incident governed by the RTA

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961896#Comment_117961896

Not sure if it's changed but several years ago a friends car was stolen and recovered, they had to claim for a lot of damage and it didn't affect their NCD. So a fire caused by another vehicle may not affect the OPs insurance, they'll still have to tell when renewing but that will be case regardless of who's insurance pays.

Losty Dublin

I recall reading about a case recently that sounds similar to this :)

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/ross-o-carroll-kelly-i-m-having-vietnam-style-flashbacks-here-1.4678700?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fross-o-carroll-kelly-i-m-having-vietnam-style-flashbacks-here-1.4678700