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Incorrect SID?

  • 02-09-2021 8:09pm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭ phonypony

    I noticed a 787 today perform what seems to be a SID for cat A/B aircraft off 10R at Dublin (with the turn at 500ft AGL)- is it still practice at EIDW for Clearance Delivery to question the first waypoint?

    Listening to the recording on LiveATC the departure controller questioned the crew on the SID, but it didn't catch the answer. Did this one slip through the safety net?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭ EchoIndia

    So many frequencies being scanned there you can't really follow any particular flight but Centre did query with UAL981 what departure they flew.

  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭ mr.anonymous

    That will surely get them a noise abatement fine.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,453 ✭✭✭ Jack1985

    Mistakes of course happen, but a lot of mitigation measures are already in place to trap these issues (which in this case failed), all departure charts will reference ex-DUB if the SID is either CAT A/B or CAT C/D - Clearances either by Radio or PDC will reference the cleared SID which require readbacks/confirmation. Both Pilots during briefings should be reading the chart which they should have identified in this case, they had programmed at CAT A/B departure. I do believe Dublin have moved on from requesting the first waypoint in the FMC, of course this would then pop up.

    Today a Swiss 320 climbed out runway heading to FL90 (ENDEQ was the first waypoint which required radar vectors) but failed to contact Dublin Control after departure, they queried with TWR for frequency change at FL90, the ATCO directed them to contact Dublin Control. Skill fade is becoming a noticeable problem more so than before post Covid-19.

  • Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭ HTCOne

    Can't speak to this specific item but Jack is right, skill fade has been an issue across the industry in all professions due the low traffic volume/workload/currency over the last few months. For example I read a report at least 12 months ago that unstabilised approaches were through the roof per capita because crews just aren't flying as often.

  • Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭ Phen2206

    DUB ATC do still ask non-Dublin-based airline crews to confirm the first waypoint in their FMS as they taxi so as to help trap these errors; I heard them doing it only the other week. Seems this one slipped through the net alright. As it has been said, skill fade and reduced capacity when dealing with multiple tasks at once is certainly an issue right now but hopefully this will improve as traffic volumes increase gradually.

    Regarding the Swiss radio issue, of course it is an error but a relatively minor one and it is very understandable - a lot of airports around Europe, even the busiest like LHR, do not have automatic self-handover to departure control so it is an easy mistake to make. It isn't possible for pilots to remember off top of head which airports do this and which don't, and yes whilst it is written on the departure charts, its an easy thing to miss when you're not familiar with an airport and busy cleaning up an aircraft right after departure.

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