Change of use - 7 year rule

Hi,

I would like to ask what opinion is on the 7 year rule in relation to change of use (from a house to a unlived in full time creche upstairs and down in a semi d).

I know for a development, extension etc. Once the structure is there more than 7 years nothing can essentially be done.

However is this the same for a change of use, pp granted for use just downstairs and keeping children to a set number. Over the years the pp expired and the business has gradually grown a lot larger with quadruple the number of children and staff using both floors of the premises.

Looking at seeking professional advice too but just wondered people's initial thoughts.

Thanks all.

muffler

How has the permission expired?

It just says:

"This permission shall cease to have effect on the <DATE> unless planning permission for a further period has been granted by the Planning Authority or on appeal by An Bord Pleanala. REASON: To enable the Planning Authority to assess the impact of the development on neighbouring properties."

Thanks

Gumbo

Change of use has a different rule I believe. I don’t think the use has a time limit.

may be wrong though.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864507#Comment_117864507

So the original planning was a temporary permission.

in that case, 7 year rule does not apply. May be 12 years as it’s a specific condition. And may be 12 years from the planning expiry.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874778#Comment_117874778

What do you mean you don't think use has a time limit? As in a complaint to planning cam be lodged and could he acted upon even after 7/12 years?

If so are you basing that on anything in particular?

Thanks for responding.

doug82

That's quite a tricky one as lots of factors come into play. The most important thing to check any planning conditions on use. For upstairs, the relevant permission would be the original residential permission. The 7 year rule does not overcome conditions relating to use

What I'm wondering is would the planning dept just say "7 years.. go away" and I would then have to pursue via courts etc. Or would they actually look at the facts and the law (?!) and agree the other party are not acting according to planning laws.

To me I would agree with you in that the "change of use" is different to "change of structure"

doug82

I dont believe the PA would dismiss it under the 7 year rule in a scenario where a temp permission has expired. I would expect the likely outcome would be the owner / occupier would seek retention permission if the PA initiated enforcement proceedings

Thanks. Gives me some hope. I suppose I'll find out in due course.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950686#Comment_117950686

the guys looking at this complaint will not be the planners that give permission for various developments under the normal planning system. The planning enforcement section have their own separate inspectors.

Ah ok I didn't know that. Thanks very much.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950541#Comment_117950541

The seven year rule applies to use as well as development. The area where it doesn't apply is in relation to specific planning conditions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950686#Comment_117950686

The original permission was temporary. Once it expired, any use became unauthorised. At the same time, any previous planning conditions ceased to apply. Unless there was a provision for what happens when they expired.

In that case it now depends what the original planning permission says in regards to use. If there is noting specifically contravened by the change of use, then they have a good case that it's been 7 years of use that enforcement can't be undertaken.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864507#Comment_117864507

What is the <DATE>?

Hi - just in relation to your comment..

"In that case it now depends what the original planning permission says in regards to use. If there is noting specifically contravened by the change of use, then they have a good case that it's been 7 years of use that enforcement can't be undertakentaken."

There were specific criteria in the original planning permission that they are contravening. 2 very specific things actually.

In relation to 154(7)b (of P&A Act 2000) it says "(b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), proceedings may be commenced at any time in respect of any condition concerning the use of land to which the permission is subject."

When you mention original planning permission do you mean the temporary planning sought?

Thanks

Mellor

There were specific criteria in the original planning permission that they are contravening. 2 very specific things actually.

That would help your case. What were these specific things?

In relation to 154(7)b (of P&A Act 2000) it says "(b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), proceedings may be commenced at any time in respect of any condition concerning the use of land to which the permission is subject."

Correct. That's specifically what I referred to above. "area where it doesn't apply is in relation to specific planning conditions."

You've suggest that have breached a condition pertaining to the use of the land. But nothing you've said so far points of what the conditions is.

When you mention original planning permission do you mean the temporary planning sought?

No. I mean the permission for the house. That had temp permission for the creche but it expired, the current authorised use is the original permission.

The temp permission is not relevant, unless it had conditions regarding what happened after it expired.