Owner created an access hatch to attic without permission

carveone

Hi all. This is an interesting thread which discusses ownership and use of common area attic space above apartments:

In that thread, some people have discussed adding attic access, possibly without considering the fire safety implications or even asking the OMC. In my apartment block, the attic is open across the top three apartments. The fire cert filed with Fingal CoCo helpfully mentions this fact in the conditions: "Separation between first floor and attic void to be a 60 minute compartment floor".

One of the apartments created Stira access to the attic and is using the attic for storage of boxes, cases and other cruft. The Stira was put in by cutting through the double slabbed plasterboard ceiling and the compartment floor. In my opinion this was a Bad Idea - it probably invalidates the fire cert not to mention our insurance. Indeed, when she attempted to sell, her Real Estate Agent immediately pointed out that this would cause problems in the sale. The Agent was on the ball there.

Her attitude is that the OMC should alter the structure of the apartment block by extending her walls up to the roof. My attitude is that she can go jump in the nearest lake. For my part, I'm trying to get the originally submitted plans from Fingal (not sure how this will help but it might show that there was no apartment access to the attic originally).

I believe what she did was illegal but I can't actually prove she did it even though she was the first owner. Needless to say, she denies that she put it in. Does it actually matter? Will the OMC have to sue to get her to remove the access, regardless of who put it in? Does this kind of thing often end up court?

PS: I had a related thread on this in which ElBastardo1 stated that "Banks are now asking questions on developments that have 'No Fire issues' has anyone actually checked there isn't.". Yes, people are asking questions now and finding that "no fire issues" doesn't mean squat unless you go and check!

bigmac3

Shouldn’t the separation of units go right to roof level?

Think the lack of separation at roof level was a contributing factor here https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20330804.html

She could tap into your electrics, or install spy cams in your apartment if she felt like it 🤣

carveone

Yeah, you're right I suppose but sure if someone wanted to mess about, they could do that even without such easy access. Oh great, I'm really paranoid now 😉

I was originally quite concerned about that when I posed in my "related thread". But if the ceiling is slabbed appropriately (1-hour fire-resistant ceiling), there should be no issues. The fire cert says explicitly that the 60 minute compartment floor is there "to comply with B3 of The Second Schedule of The Building Regulations". I'm pretty happy that Fingal put that in because I get to wave it at anyone who doubts the compliance 😀

Caranica

She should be forced to reinstate the roof to a fire compliant standard entirely at her cost. She has effectively vandalised common property.

I have an attic in my duplex but the hatch was there and division walls go all the way up and it's in my legal documents that I have exclusive access. But that was meant to be an attic for my unit, it doesn't sound like this was the case for the OP's example.

carveone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117753332#Comment_117753332

On a related note: when you buy an apartment, you should make sure that your electricity meter is the one marked as yours. I know it sounds ridiculous but I've heard of developments where the electricity meter marked "Apt 5" did not go to apartment 5!

carveone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117753402#Comment_117753402

Thank you. I completely agree. There's no "special attic access" mentioned anywhere that I can find on any documents. There is a fire proofed attic hatch in the common hall area that will be on the plans.

I don't think it makes any difference what she claims. Even if she proved it was pre-existing, that's still her problem and not ours.

She actually managed to get the management agent to start getting quotes for building work without anyone else knowing about it (I'm a director). I went slightly mental and then had a polite word with the agent. I'm actually a bit of a wuss - I should really have torn them a new one 🤨

Caranica

The only quotes she should be getting are for reinstatement, and she should be paying for that. Management company need to send her a solicitor's letter to that effect.

Darc19

I'd forget the fire rating argument as you'd be effective be saying that if it was fire rated, it would be fine. it may already be fire rated and if not, it's an easy fix for her.

The easy solution is for someone to access the attic area from the common area hatch and seal her hatch up. Remove any boxes and the physical ladder and leave them outside her door with a notification that any incursion into the attic will be met with similar response and all costs involved in rectifying the issue will be put against her property.

And a note that before any sale at any point in the future, all balances to the OMC must be cleared before a buyers solicitor will approve such a sale.

It will be far far cheaper than arguing for years and having solicitors involved.

If a certain length of time goes by would she be able to claim ownership if no objection. No idea, just wondering.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117756695#Comment_117756695

No. She doesn't own her apartment, it's a long lease from the management company so adverse possession can't apply.