Virgin Media going all IPTV in future and next gen Set Top Box (Apollo)

bk

I was watching a presentation by the HFC architect at Liberty Global (VM's parent company) about DOCSIS 4.0 that will deliver broadband speeds up to 10Gig and it included some really interesting tidbits about VM's future TV plans and a new set top box.

It looks like over the next few years, VM will go all IPTV for their TV broadcast and dropping DVB-C broadcast. They need to do this to free up extra capacity for faster broadband speeds on DOCSIS3.1 and 4.0.

They have already launched their new all IPTV set top box in Poland called Apollo. It is a small box that fits in your hand, about the size of the NowTV or Apple TV box and can be powered by your TV's USB port. It has only a USB and HDMI port and works over Wifi/ethernet, no coax ports, etc.

It makes sense for Poland, as they have two networks there, some customers on cable, while others on FTTH, so they needed a IPTV type box for the FTTH customers anyway. And it looks like it will also be necessary in the future for DOCSIS 4.0

In other news, Iliad, the French company who partly owns Eir, have made an offer to buy UPC Poland. Not accepted yet and they also recently bought the Polish mobile operator Play. Interesting as it would leave UPC Ireland as one of the last networks to sell off if accepted.

https://www.libertyglobal.com/about/products/mini-tv-box/

https://www.upc.pl/telewizja/poznaj/poznaj-nasza-telewizje/dekoder-4k/?intcmp=hp-hero3-4k

Delta2113

I'd imagine a lot off stuff has been put on hold until the new owner shows up. Also Irish/UK broadcasters refusing to allow them use the cloud for recording show's is another problem hence why the 360 has a hard drive.

bk

Makes sense Delta2113. And it is complete insanity how the traditional broadcasters aren't allowing Cloud recording. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot and pushing people more towards the various streaming services.

Delta2113

The decoder allows you to record broadcasts, the program is saved on our server. Thanks to this solution, you can record any number of programs at the same time. The maximum recording time is 50 hours (regardless of the number of set-top boxes you have). The time for saving the recordings is three months. In case you want to replace the set-top box with another one, your recordings will still be available.

• on recordings from some channels, e.g. TVP, TVN, Polsat, fast forwarding is not available - the ability to rewind recorded materials results from license agreements with broadcasters

RTE would settle well in with TVP, TVN, Polsat.

bk

Thinking about it a bit, I wonder could they still go all IPTV, but use a slightly larger box (like the Sky Q box) with storage built in to record the IP stream locally to bypass this rights issue.

They could even keep using the Virgin 360 box, but as an IP only box, disabling the coax ports and could use the smaller Apollo boxes for multiroom, streaming the recording from the V360 or similar box.

Delta2113

RTE News (RTE News Now) was IPTV for awhile so yes they could include a hard drive. Well that's what they had to for the 360.

Wabbit Ears

Rte News now couldn't be recorded on the hard drive STB which, I assume, is why it reverted back to QAM.

spaceHopper

Missing to killer features for me anyway, I don't want my wifi network swamped with IOT devices much prefer wired, second unless the remote is fully Bluetooth they should put an IR receiver port on it so that you can hide the whole thing. Better still have an app in the smart TV so you don't need a box.

Then again VM have simply become to expensive, I use their internet but cut the TV service two years ago.

bk

This box supports ethernet too, so you could basically swap your coax cables for ethernet ones, rather then swamping your wifi [1]

You could also possibly run ethernet over coax (called MoCA), so you wouldn't need to even replace the coax cables if already in place.

[1] I'm much the same as you, I'm lucky to have ethernet in every room, so I run my smart TV, etc. off ethernet where possible.

And yep, VM TV too expensive, Sky too, IMO. I also only use VM for broadband now + Freesat/Saorview for live TV, not that I watch it much anymore, mostly Netflix, Youtube, Prime Video, etc. these days, much better value for money IMO.

icdg

Mike Firies in the last LG conference call appeared to pour cold water over cable being dead in either the U.K. or Ireland (though it was mainly the U.K. being talked about and Ireland was just mentioned as a by the by, not just on this issue but in general, which I guess underscores the non-core aspect to the operation here). He did say that might be the case in some of their other markets though.

The rights issues with pure cloud storage are very problematic, as eir TV customers frustrated at not being able to use PVR will tell you. I think that will only get better when Sky starts to push it, although Sky’s solution in the markets it has deployed IPTV has been basically to say that you can either have satellite and PVR or IPTV and no PVR.

Full_Circle_81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117800388#Comment_117800388

I don't think I'd be happy to go with any service that doesn't allow me to record whatever is being broadcast. Fair enough that a few channels have catch-up apps/services now, but you can't catch up on movies for example (apart from select Film4 titles on All4). The big glaring omission is of course BBCs iPlayer. I know there is some sort of rights issue going on there, but seeing as how their channels are available here on every single TV provider and free-to-air on satellite, it seems a bit bonkers that they exclude us from their catch-up service.

If I was paying for a service that didn't allow me to record the channels I'm paying them for, I'd cancel and go satellite free-to-air, which at least allows some awkward recording alternatives (third party combi boxes or via memory key through the tv).

bk

"Mike Firies in the last LG conference call appeared to pour cold water over cable being dead in either the U.K. or Ireland (though it was mainly the U.K. being talked about and Ireland was just mentioned as a by the by, not just on this issue but in general, which I guess underscores the non-core aspect to the operation here). He did say that might be the case in some of their other markets though."

I would say that he news out of the UK means that cable might not be dead, but it is very much on death watch.

What they have announced in the UK is that they will skip DOCSIS 4.0 and instead move to FTTP, this is pretty big news that indicates the end of cable.

You are correct that they aren't decommissioning the cable network, they will continue to use it and DOCSIS 3.1 to deliver speeds up to 1Gig (and maybe 2 in the future) to customers, but for customers who might order 5gig, 10gig, etc. they will pull FTTP to them.

It is similar to the way that Eir will still sell you an ADSL or VDSL connection over a phone line up to 100mb/s, but if you want to go faster, they will pull a FTTP connection to you.

Basically both cable and DSL are now legacy technologies and they won't see much more development if any, the future is FTTP. Though cable probably has more life then DSL.

This will make it even more likely that they will go all IPTV, even on cable, as they will need an IPTV service and box for their FTTP customers anyway and easier to run one service then two. Plus they are talking about possibly squeezing 2gig out of DOCSIS 3.1 for those custoemrs who stay on cable, that is likely only possible if they turn off DVB-C channels to free up space for more internet bandwidth.

BTW I was watching an interesting presentation from the Chief Architect at Cox (I think), he was saying that their plan was to go for a hybrid IPTV/DVB-C setup. Basically, have the least watched channels on IPTV, the frequently watched ones on DVB-C, over time move more and more to IPTV until all are on it.

icdg

Bear in mind also that it is all too clear that Liberty want out of Ireland, they have four pillars now (Virgin Media O2, VodafoneZiggo, Sunrise-UPC and Telenet) and basically everyone else - basically just VM Ireland and UPC Slovakia now, once the sale of UPC Poland is completed - is non core. Will Liberty move to invest much in Ireland in that circumstance?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117801518#Comment_117801518

Yes, that will be the big question. Though Mike did mention that they see going FTTP in Ireland too. So hopefully we won't be forgotten.

In fairness they did invest in DOCSIS 3.1 and significant cable upgrades here, even ahead of the UK. While small, it is still a decent market for them and faces similar competition as the UK.