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2nd hand Ecar, EV or PHEV under €20k

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,896 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Rule out the mercedes as it has no fast charging options.

    Ioniq has a good level of spec and 180-220km real world range (I did 50k km in mine before selling to another boardsie). That's the one I'd go for at that price range. You're looking at 8-10k at least over the stated budget to get a "better" option (ie similar spec but more range) kia esoul/eniro



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ dinneenp


    Cheers, how fast is 'standard' charging?

    would something like this be economical for mainly short trips? https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/bmw/3-series/fpa/202008142472413?journey=Search

    2016 BMW 3 Series 330M Sport





  • Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭ n97 mini


    I think the one the OP linked to is the hybrid, not full EV.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    There is some confusion on that B class, from what I know, it charges at 3.6 kW or maybe 7 kW per hour only, a fast charging car could get 40 kW or more per hour.

    The BMW would do 20 to 30 km on a charge and probably 40 mpg or 7 L /100 km on petrol.

    This car would have the same efficiency https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-c350e-sport-hybrid-278bhp-phev/28386105

    The ioniq came in 3 different drive trains, hybrid like a toyota, full ev like a leaf, and a plug in hybrid like the 2 linked above, but with greater efficiency.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,896 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Sorry, didnt see the phev, assumed it was the EV b class. That charges at 11kW AC only, no DC



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭ Miscreant


    Ioniq PHEV charges at 3.6kW max, I have one :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ dinneenp


    So I yest drove a petrol hybrid today (no plig-in) - liked the trim/interior, drive etc. Similar to this-

    https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Hyundai/Ioniq/fpa/202105132559543

    So if I stay under 40km trip it doesn't use any petrol. A few qs-I'd have no fuel bill? On paper no bill if used for short trips but its probably not as straight forward as that I'm guessing?

    How long does it take to charge again?

    How long is the battery life about, cost to replace etc?

    Anything else to note?

    If I stretched budget to 25k what cars would you recommend?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭ Miscreant


    So the car you tested is a straight up hybrid like a Toyota Prius. On pure electricity, the battery will probably last you 2 or 3km but if you use the "pulse & glide" method you might get a little more. I would not assume you can make every short trip on electricity alone.

    The car will charge the battery either using the petrol engine or by regenerating using coasting or the brakes. How long this will take depends on a lot of factors as it is not a steady recharge you will get from these methods. It could take 50kms of motorway driving to recharge the battery and if it is mostly town driving, you may never see a full charge. With a "normal" hybrid, the car will manage the charge cycles by itself and you have very little input (in the Ioniq, you can flick the gearbox to SPORT mode and this will recharge the battery for you but it will use quite a bit of fuel in doing so).

    Battery life on a standard hybrid should be a non-issue. We live in a temperate climate, so extremes of temperature are not going to affect it here. I got 9 years from a standard hybrid and over 170,000 miles without a noticeable drop in electric only range (which was only 2 or 3kms anyway when new). Replacement battery cost would be a couple of thousand for a hybrid in any case but I doubt you will ever need to worry about it.

    If you are stretching your budget to 25k, you could get a plug in hybrid or full electric version of the car you test drove (Ioniq), a reasonably new Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (2017 or thereabouts), all manner of BMW, VW or Mercedes plug-in hybrids. For full electric: a good used Nissan Leaf 40 (I imagine), lots of BMW i3s to choose from and a few VW eGolf models at around that price on Carzone. I doubt any of the newer 64kWh cars will have dropped to the 25k mark yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ dinneenp


    Hi again,

    Any thoughts on this please? Interior is lovely, a step up from Hyundai Ioniq etc.

    Being 5 years old would there be any concerns re the battery life or anything else to note?

    https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/BMW/3Series/fpa/202008142472413

    Thanks,

    Pa



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,896 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Thats the earliest one. Chap had one at work and in 2019-20 (ie before covid) he reckoned 20-25km was the best electric only range in the real world.

    Nice car, but for me I'd prefer the 530e in touring spec.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,477 ✭✭✭ irishgrover


    my old car is for sale in Galway. Its the Ioniq premium SE. I bought it direct from Hyundai Newcastle UK as that spec was not available here.

    Its a great car. Slightly over budget but am guessing hey would do a deal to get to your price range.

    Note: I traded in the car with KIA Liffeyvalley and it ender up in Galway.

    PS the other car in the driveway is a bmw 530e. there are a wonderful car, but the range is very limited in reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,896 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Lovely car, I'd seen that a while ago. Pricey for the spec but it would be my pick of Ioniqs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭ Redfox25


    Hogan's can be hard to chat to but no harm in asking. That car looks great and if you don't have a trade in you can bargain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    If you are looking to save money then you need to state or asses your annual mileage. Secondly you need to be honest re your normal budget for the next car. 'stretching' can be an awfully dangerous game if you overextend and borrow to hopefully get a predicted saving in x years time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ dinneenp


    They're valid questions and the truth is I'm still figuring out what I want.

    Began with Skoda Octavia petrol automatic- narrowed it down to 3 I liked. Then happened to see a Hyundai Ioniq and the interior seemed better to the Octavia. Came back to the Octavia (16/17) and having second thoughts on it. While decent interior, there's nothing exciting about it. Then thought why not get something v nice as I'll be driving it for the next 5 years at least. Looked at BMW 3 series, Merc CLA 180, BMW 330e as well- all stunning interiors.

    Re the budget I can stretch as I have the cash....

    So I'm still a bit all over the shop. Kms per year about 15-20km I'd say, a lot of that is short runs (school 2km, sport drop offs 5km, football 15km once a week, town about once a week 20km, work will be once or twice a week 12km)

    Cheers,

    Pa.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    Well at that annual mileage an ev would be good if you can get one within budget and you accept you use the other car for longer trips. At 8l per hundred km it's 2.5k a year on fuel so if you take an average 5 years ownership and can get a home charger and an ev for 20 something k then it could well suit you.


    I'd avoid a phev as it's a halfway gimmick especially as already have a second car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ dinneenp


    . 119qo

    Cheers. So you're saying get a 100% electric car, like the Hyundai from Hogans?

    Roughly, how much would 15k-20k km cost in electricity please?

    Wife drives to work 3 days a week (20km, traffic all the way) so could take the EV on those days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    Well take your night tarrif rate per kWh which is the best way to charge an ev and multiply by the kWh of the battery being charged.


    Generally you are not charging all of it anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭ zilog_jones


    It's easier to work out costs if you compare the standard metric consumption measurements of litres/100km for your car versus kWh/100km for an EV. Typical (somewhat pessimistic) energy consumption for an EV would be around 18 to 20 kWh/100km (Ioniq Electric is more like 14-16 I think). Not sure exactly which Octavia you were looking at, but I'm seeing averages of about 7.8 l/100km for petrol automatics (based on here: https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/45-Skoda/399-Octavia.html?fueltype=2&constyear_s=2015&constyear_e=2017&minkm=5000&gearing=4&powerunit=2).

    If you get a night meter you can get electricity for 10c per kWh or less. So you're talking less than €2 per 100 km for an EV versus €12 per 100 km for the petrol at current prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ Red Silurian


    Delete comment



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ dinneenp


    So I was in Limerick and drove a fully electric Ionic- https://used.hyundai.ie/dealer/TGltZXJpY2sgTW90b3IgQ2VudHJl/car/24991423

    Have to say I liked it, comfortable & the amount that it'd save on petrol would be very nice. Then had an 11th hour possible change of mind- a BMW 3 series. Saw a 2016 BMW 330e with 75k km on the clock for €19,250. I know I'd spend more on petrol but it's a step up in comfort and luxury. Going to check it out properly this week and then try to decide.

    Cheers,

    Pa



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,477 ✭✭✭ irishgrover


    just FYI: Drove past Hogans yesterday and saw that the Ioniq has a sold sign on it



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,392 ✭✭✭ Old diesel


    For what its worth....

    I bought an Ioniq EV this week, I decided to go EV purely because I felt they were nicer then most ICE (petrol/diesel) cars.

    A 200 km trip should probably be planned on the basis of one charge stop somewhere.

    Whether thats at destination potentially on a 100 km there and 100 km back trip.

    Or a stop enroute if its 200 km one way.

    How much of a hassle/issue that 1 stop is for you depends on a number of factors.

    1) time sensitivity of the journey - are you on a tight time schedule that makes stopping anywhere a problem. Or would you be doing the trip with time to spare where you could stop for a nice lunch.

    2) Charger availability on route or at convenient locations not far off route.

    3) how much range you want to have left after your 200 km drive.

    4) How fast you want to drive.

    5) availability of destination charging if its 200 km round trip (100 kms to destination, 100 kms back).

    If you can find a rapid then 20 mins will be plenty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ dinneenp


    So I have it narrowed down (for the moment to) either:

    2017 Skoda Octivia Style, €14,500:

    Ionic, have to figure out which would suit me best- hybrid, PHEV or fully electric. The fully elec is more expensive but cheaper in the long run I presume. Driving:

    many short trips (5km-8km round trips- school/sports), 36km round trip 2 or 3 times a week & every 3rd month (or so) a long trip (100-200km to destination and same back) Could use the other family car if I get range anxiety. Also the odd 40km or so round trip.

    Some Ionics I've seen:

    Fully electric 2017 Ionic EV, €18,900:

    https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/hyundai/ioniq/fpa/202108196422650?journey=Search

    2017 Ionic hybrid (not PHEV), €16,950:

    The interior of the Skoda is nicer, less 'plastic' feel but the Ionic is more comfortable than it looks and like the savings from EV.

    Any thoughts please?

    Thanks,

    Pa.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,324 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    I did up a spreadsheet to compare the running costs of an ev with the 4-5 year old diesel we would have bought otherwise. Fuel/ electricity Cost per km , depreciation, cost of finance. Everything


    total cost of ownership over three years worked out similar for older diesel and brand new ev for 20,000 km a year. New ev was cheaper to own and run at over 20000 mileage. Do your sums.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,805 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    20,000km per year at 16kWh/100km (fairly worst case for an Ioniq) is 3200kWh per year

    At the cheapest night rate available right now (Energia EV plan, 5.23c/kWh) that gives an annual cost of €167.36

    Cheaper than walking 😁



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