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Rakes and flag removal to make a return


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo

    Some caveats apply of course. It's voluntary, so some clubs will, some won't. Also advised to keep it to one player in a group to handle flags and rakes. And lots of hand washing/sanitising obviously.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭big_drive

    I've actually gotten used to flag in, wouldn't worry me if it never changed back

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭blue note

    I remember an article in Golf Digest about a decade ago where they tested balls dropping with flags in and out. Basically, it was very rare that a ball wouldn't drop because of a flag being in and far more common that it would. I always suspected this was the case since you weren't allowed to keep the flags in on greens. I couldn't imagine they were making sure you gave yourself the best chance possible of holing the putts.

    That said, I like the sound of the ball hitting the bottom of a cup. Hitting the flag and dropping just isn't the same. It used to be of course when it meant that you'd holed out a chip, but not so much now.

    What I'm not looking forward to is groups faffing about with the flags again. The first fella wants it out, then back in for the second and out again for the third. We could do without that.

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 22,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith

    Look forward to bunkers being back to normal, where they can be properly punishing if you get a bad lie.

    Stopped taking the pin out ages ago though, when they changed the rules in 2019 (?). Won't be going back to taking them out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭srfc d16

    I prefer putting with the flag in and I would say that to my playing partners on the day. Generally unless I was in their line I would ask to putt first and the flag can be removed when I am done. If I didn't go 1st and the flag had already been removed I wouldn't ask for it to be put back. I feel this is the only way you can keep a decent pace on the green because as you said taking it out and back in a couple of times is a waste of time.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{

    Delighted. I'm used to putting with the flag in so probably keep that way. Before Covid anyone that wanted the pin in went first and meant the pin only came out once and not in and out.

    Our bunkers do be in a state most of the time due to not being racked and there's some nasty horrible lies to be had even though it can be placed. Placing really gives some players of lesser ability an really advantage by placing it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭RGS

    There are players new to the game who have never played the ball as it lies in a bunker. I think its great rakes are coming back but hopefully those playing in front will remember to rake the bunkers.

    Putts from short distance with a wind blowing the flag are IMO a bit of a nightmare. hate seeing the pin wobble and hear the flag billowing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭Wichita Lineman

    Our club has decided to stay as we were on this for now. Personally I think it's too early for rakes in bunkers and most of us were leaving flags in a lot more anyway so that makes very little difference to me.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,557 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭gypsy79

    Because people have had the sh!t scared out of them and everything causes COVID

    Would love to hear a GOOD reason why it is too early

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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭Wichita Lineman

    Because I dont want to have to sanitise my hands 18 times a round for starters. It hasnt gone away and while we have to learn to live with it I think there are far more important things to worry about than whether i can rake a bunker or not.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭blackbox

    I'd like to see the flags left in permanently. It saves a huge amount of faffing around.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭OEP

    While that is the recommendation from Golf Ireland, the evidence shows that covid doesn't really spread through contact with surfaces particularly outdoors

  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭TXPTGR1

    The amount of money being pissed away on hand sanitizer is crazy- pretty well established all this extra scrubbing a waste of time now but for some reason authorities afraid to roll back or mandate regulations around stuff like ventilation that would make a big difference

  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭fungie

    Covid is an airborne disease and not (or very very highly unlikely) to be transmitted via surfaces. Basically, the majority of measures, other than face masks are complete garbage.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭Snotty

    Delighted, our course had big thick flags for the link winds and there is no taper at the bottom. If any study of flag in and out was done using our flags it would definitely show the flag stops more balls dropping than aids it

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭joebloggs32

    Played yesterday.

    One thing i really noticed/forgot...its a long way down to the bottom of the hole to pick out the ball!

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,557 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB

    I’m a member in 2 clubs.

    1 is keeping temp measures in place while other has removed them.

    i think it’s time to roll it back and play as it lies in bunkers and bring the rakes back.

  • It’s interesting that virtually all pros opt for flag out for anything other that long putts.

  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Walter Alright

    I’d prefer to leave the flags in permanently, too much time wasted with some groups but I’m happy that the rakes are back in bunkers.

    The bunkers resemble winter bunkers with the lack of raking some time.

    I can’t understand why we’re not back to marking cards properly. Swap the card at the start and end of the round like before. I don’t like the way we’re doing it now.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭BraveDonut

    I have always hated putting with the flag in.

    Our club also has quite thick flags.

    It's a mental thing for me that the hole is a bigger target with the flag out. I putted much better yesterday than I have for months

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo

    I prefer them out too. We've opted to have them removable and rakes in bunkers and the first day I played, I holed out from off the green twice with the pin in. 😂

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭willabur

    surely if the flag stick itself is chunky that gives you a good target to aim for

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭Luckycharm

    It seems everyone has forgotten to rake the bunkers, the amount of footprints have ended up having to play from.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭Snotty

    Our club have decided to keep the flag in, not happy with that decision at all and I assume there is no longer a penalty for removing the flag under the GUI so my 4 ball said we will be removing the flag regardless what the club says.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,557 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB

    I stand to be corrected but wasn’t it a local rule which was as brought in? So your club would still have the local rule in place which they are entitled to. You are breaking the rule and subject to the relevant penalty

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo

    Apparently it can be implemented as either a code of conduct or a local rule. I suspect that a lot of clubs didn't formally introduce it as either (probably falling under a code of conduct in that case), so without a specific penalty mentioned in the 'rule' or code of conduct, I'm not sure if there's any relevant penalty.


    Committees may choose to adopt the following policies on a temporary basis:

    Require that players leave the flagstick in the hole at all times. It is a matter for the Committee to decide whether it establishes this policy by way of a Code of Conduct or Local Rule, and whether it provides a penalty under the Code of Conduct or for a breach of the Local Rule.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,557 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB

    if It was brought in as a local rule I don’t think there would be a need to mention a specific penalty as under section 8 of the rules states the following; (can’t figure out how to quote on the touch site)

    “Unless otherwise stated the penalty for a breach of a Local Rule should be the general penalty.”

    so that tells me if it’s a local rule and the rule doesn’t state otherwise, then there would be a general penalty.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo

    Yeah, that's true. But if not (and I suspect a lot of clubs didn't formalise it as such) it would possibly fall under code of conduct that would need a similar reference to a penalty.

    To quote, just click the format symbol to the left of your text and the quote option will be in the little toolbar that pops up. This symbol:

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