Childminder / self isolation

Paul Tergat

Hi,

Looking for an opinion on something. Thoughts are welcome.

My 18 month old goes to a childminder (their house) and they get along great. Other kids go there too who are around the same age as well as a couple of older kids..

The childminder is from another country and for the last year her husband, also from that same country, returned to that country to look after sick parents. Thankfully, he is coming back to Ireland this weekend and we are delighted that it means their family is back together again (they have kids, 19 and 15, thereabouts).

The issue is that in accordance with government rules the husband will be required to self isolate in the house (it's a 'designated country') for 7 days, despite being fully vaccinated. The childminder is insisting that he will be in a separate room in the house isolating - it's a 3 bed house, the kids have their own bedrooms and presumably parents share the other.

The childminder is saying she is available to take our child next week. I am of the view that it would not be safe to send our child and furthermore that it is not appropriate to continue to have the childcare facility open when someone in the house is self isolating. My view is, and it is only right that this would be happening, is that the husband will want to see his wife and kids and catch up etc having not seen each other so long, i.e. it is not practically possible to self isolate in their house for 7 days which is required by government.

My childminder wants to be paid as she is 'available' to work and our arrangement is we pay her unless she takes holidays or its a bank holiday. My view is, and each childs parents make their own decisions, that is it not appropriate to run a childcare facility if there is someone in the property who needs to self isolate. When we said we do not think it's appropriate to pay, we were then asked for a payment to 'hold' our childs place. I don't want to go down this road but feel this is bang out of line as I feel it is not us who are looking to withhold our child but we are doing it out of safety and to protect all involved - i don't get why we would pay for something we don't seem to be safe.

Long story but the question is, do peoole think it's appropriate to continue to provide childcare in this scenario and therefore should we be paying the childminder? We have to get over the fact that as parents we are taking leave for this as again it's great that their family is back together but out of principple we don't deem this to be us taking leave. While it's only a weeks pay, there is a point of principle here (my opinion of course.).

Thoughts?

Afroshack

1. If he is confined to his room, a separate walled space, it shouldn’t be an issue. Ask your child minder to ensure her husband wears a mask and washes his hands if interacting with anyone else in the house or using the bathroom.

2. Yes, since you are the one who wants to take your child out you should certainly pay her. Why should she be down a weeks wages because her husband has come back? Do you value her as a child minder at all? If you value her, pay her.

Paul Tergat

Afroshack wrote: »

1. If he is confined to his room, a separate walled space, it shouldn’t be an issue. Ask your child minder to ensure her husband wears a mask and washes his hands if interacting with anyone else in the house or using the bathroom.

It's a 3 bed house with all rooms used up. There is literally no other space available. The above re: masks etc is not self isolating as I understand it. I fully expect the family to be embracing etc, it is perfectly normal. This though would mean they need to isolate together surely.

Afroshack wrote: »

2. Yes, since you are the one who wants to take your child out you should certainly pay her. Why should she be down a weeks wages because her husband has come back? Do you value her as a child minder at all? If you value her, pay her.

See you say certainly and obviously have a view which is fair enough and what I am interested to hear. I do not agree at all that we are making the choice here, the choice is being taken out of our hands. We have been so careful as to not mix with anyone in order to protect our childminder and her family (we haven't beeng seeing anyone else since this started) and think it should be reciprocated.

The whole line of if you value you should pay does not make any sense - the point is around the appropriateness of running a facility in this scenario and judging by your response you think it is ok which is fair enough.

Gatling

I'd be saying I'm not sending my child till the isolation period has passed and he's not a infection risk ,for whatever period he comes back he will be all over the house living and breathing like everyone else ,
I wouldn't be paying her if you have to keep a child at home due to her others circumstances ,
I find it mad you can self isolate at whats essentially a crèche ran out of a private house

Lizardlegz

I work in occupational health. There is no way she should be running the business while there is someone at home returning from a red country who is self-isolating. I would not send my child. And I would be adamant they need to inform other parents of the situation so other parents can make the informed decision on whether to send their child or not.

With regards to payment. That is entirely up to you. Technically or out of principal the answer is no... you should not have to pay her as it is her decision to allow someone to self isolate on the premises. He could rent a single room appartment etc to self isolate if needed to allow her run her business. But she is choosing to allow him stay in the family home therefore, putting others at a potential risk.

Whether you pay her or not is a different matter, as someone else said.. do you value her as a minder. Are her rates competitive, do you hope to keep your child there long term, are you otherwise happy with everything.?

Just to give a scenario. If anyone in the facility where I work decides to go “away” or “on holiday” for whatever reason.... they not only have to take annual leave for their time off... but they also need to take the extra 2 weeks annual leave or unpaid leave to self isolate when they arrive back in Ireland. That comes out of their annual leave allowance or as said goes unpaid. We do not pay them. They do not get covid leave. It was there choice to leave the country (for whatever the reason). Do you pay her holiday pay? Perhaps you could pay her for the week off as her holiday pay? I.e. she take annual leave that week instead of another week of her choosing? To put it bluntly, this is her decision (not yours) so you shouldn’t have to pay for it. However, I totally get you want to keep her and you’re being pretty good about it to be honest. The last point is whether you really want to keep your child with her... you might just decide to pay anyway....

Paul Tergat

Gatling wrote: »

I'd be saying I'm not sending my child till the isolation period has passed and he's not a infection risk ,for whatever period he comes back he will be all over the house living and breathing like everyone else ,
I wouldn't be paying her if you have to keep a child at home due to her others circumstances ,
I find it mad you can self isolate at whats essentially a crèche ran out of a private house

This is kind of my stance but to be honest feel like we aren't coming from a position of strength. As much as anything else, I don't want to be setting precedents and think we just now need to operate with little leeway for other things that crop up in the future. Frustrating and has really put me off going the childminding route if we are lucky enough to / want another down the line - i appreciate not everyone is not the same of course.

Paul Tergat

Lizardlegz wrote: »

I work in occupational health. There is no way she should be running the business while there is someone at home returning from a red country who is self-isolating. I would not send my child. And I would be adamant they need to inform other parents of the situation so other parents can make the informed decision on whether to send their child or not.

I agree. To be fair, i know she has informed the parents of the other kids the same age as ours and they have decided to send them in - that is their call of course. We can only determine things for each of our situations and i do not deem it appropriate to run such a facility while someone else is self isolating in the same house. On the human side it is perfectly normal to embrace your own family having not seen them for a year (I haven't seen my family over in UK since this all started and my daughter hasn't met them but we make such decisions to keep everyone safe, including all those in the childminder).

Lizardlegz wrote: »

With regards to payment. That is entirely up to you. Technically or out of principal the answer is no... you should not have to pay her as it is her decision to allow someone to self isolate on the premises. He could rent a single room appartment etc to self isolate if needed to allow her run her business. But she is choosing to allow him stay in the family home therefore, putting others at a potential risk.


Whether you pay her or not is a different matter, as someone else said.. do you value her as a minder. Are her rates competitive, do you hope to keep your child there long term, are you otherwise happy with everything.?

This is where we have landed. We do not think it's the right thing to do but don't see us having any choice. Have zero complaints about how she looks after our daughter and they get along great so for the small amount of money we don't really want to rock to the boat - it's just lets put it shady in my opinion to still be 'open'.

Lizardlegz wrote: »

Just to give a scenario. If anyone in the facility where I work decides to go “away” or “on holiday” for whatever reason.... they not only have to take annual leave for their time off... but they also need to take the extra 2 weeks annual leave or unpaid leave to self isolate when they arrive back in Ireland. That comes out of their annual leave allowance or as said goes unpaid. We do not pay them. They do not get covid leave. It was there choice to leave the country (for whatever the reason). Do you pay her holiday pay? Perhaps you could pay her for the week off as her holiday pay? I.e. she take annual leave that week instead of another week of her choosing? To put it bluntly, this is her decision (not yours) so you shouldn’t have to pay for it. However, I totally get you want to keep her and you’re being pretty good about it to be honest. The last point is whether you really want to keep your child with her... you might just decide to pay anyway....

The arrangement is we pay her when we want to take holidays but any days she takes she doesnt get paid.

There are really 2 things as most replies have mentioned:
- the point of principle which i am comfortable i am right with
- whether or not to rock the boat for the sake of a weeks payment.

I think we have decided the latter takes precedence but don't appreciate what i think is being backed into a corner and will be making that very clear.

Lizardlegz

Yep I think you’ve made the correct decision regarding payment. Even if you do feel you’ve been backed into a corner. And I think your reservations were absolutely right and technically she should not be paid. Perhaps look at it as a once off, and you are keeping happy the person that keeps your wee one happy... while also keeping your little one safe for the week at your own home.

Big Bag of Chips

You are assuming a lot, maybe correctly. But you don't know what sleeping arrangements they have in place. If she has said he will be isolated in a room then it's fair to believe her that he will be isolated in a room away from the rest of the family, with other family members doubling up in the other rooms.

This is her business and I'm sure she doesn't want to risk a Covid outbreak that shuts her facility and possibly spreads the infection to multiple families.

I understand your concern and understand why you have taken the decision to remove your child for the week. It sounds like you don't trust this lady or believe what she has told you. The other families have chosen to believe that she will put all safety measures in place to keep her husband isolated from the family for the 7 days and keep her business safely open.

Peppery

You choose to leave your very young child with this person for a significant length of time each week - how much do you value them? I have a small child and I think the person who minds them is doing the most important job in the world for me. I value them. I would definitely pay her. It’s your decision if you don’t feel comfortable - he’s fully vaccinated too so what she’s suggesting makes sense. Why would you leave her out of pocket?

I’m flabbergasted at how little people value those with the most important jobs in our society such as helping to raise kids. You wouldn’t question a penny your solicitor charged you.