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Golden Handshake / Extra Redundancy

  • 04-07-2021 10:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 42 TigerPhil


    My role is being made redundant mostly because of a takeover a few years ago.

    I’ve been offered statutory redundancy but it looks like an opening offer. They will need my help in training someone in.

    What are the nice and official phrases or reasons I can use to encourage a better payment?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 72,940 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    So are you just being offered the 2 weeks statutory or anything else? If it was me and I could afford it I would tell them I was leaving right away unless they bettered it. Lots of places will give 4 weeks plus the 2 statutory, that's minimum I would be aiming for especially if they require my skills to train someone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    Statutory is the bare minimum they can pay you and for that they should get the bare minimum in return.

    If they need your help to facilitate a handover then ask for 4 week plus statutory and see how you get on.

    My employer, multinational, paid 3 week which included statutory to some colleagues this year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭ AmberGold


    Not a simple question OP.

    How much service do you have, is there a genuine need for redundancy due to a downturn in business?
    How have you been selected relative to your peers? This could be a dismissal dressed up as a redundancy. A merger is not a reason for redundancy and process must be followed to make the selection fair to all.

    An offer of statutory is meagre, that fact that you have to train someone suggests your role is not being made redundant. Now is not the time to be looking for a new role and every week you drag this process out is another weeks wages.

    Someone suggested that you threaten to leave right away. Not the approach I’d take, start off with how much you enjoyed working there and the commitment you’ve given / how much you need the job. Is there a chance to apply for another role in the business and have they considered these options.

    There’s a number of ways to approach this, I’d be getting the question answered as to whether there’s an enhanced package on offer fairly quickly. This would dictate my next steps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭ cronos


    AmberGold wrote: »
    Not a simple question OP.

    How much service do you have, is there a genuine need for redundancy due to a downturn in business?
    How have you been selected relative to your peers? This could be a dismissal dressed up as a redundancy. A merger is not a reason for redundancy and process must be followed to make the selection fair to all.

    An offer of statutory is meagre, that fact that you have to train someone suggests your role is not being made redundant. Now is not the time to be looking for a new role and every week you drag this process out is another weeks wages.

    Someone suggested that you threaten to leave right away. Not the approach I’d take, start off with how much you enjoyed working there and the commitment you’ve given / how much you need the job. Is there a chance to apply for another role in the business and have they considered these options.

    There’s a number of ways to approach this, I’d be getting the question answered as to whether there’s an enhanced package on offer fairly quickly. This would dictate my next steps.

    I'd get an email explaining who needs to be trained and what they need to be trained for, ideally including their job title.

    If it's the same job title then it's not a redundancy IMO at which point you have them legally I would think (although seek legal advice first). In fact if they tried to dismiss you at that point they would dig a hole even worse.

    Proving all the above would be time consuming so once you have all the info you could instead of going the legal route negotiate the best possible package. Be careful what's in writing from your end, talk in person.


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭ TimHorton


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Statutory is the bare minimum they can pay you and for that they should get the bare minimum in return.

    If they need your help to facilitate a handover then ask for 4 week plus statutory and see how you get on.

    My employer, multinational, paid 3 week which included statutory to some colleagues this year.

    2 + 1 is pretty miserable. especially for a Multi National


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭ yosser hughes


    If your role is being made redundant, why are you being asked to train someone in?
    Cronos sums it up well above


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    TimHorton wrote: »
    2 + 1 is pretty miserable. especially for a Multi National

    That's what I and the person who was made redundant thought. When the news of potential lay-offs was announced I worked out what I'd get at 4+2 and was tempted, I even had a few interviews lined up but I'm glad I didn't follow through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭ TimHorton


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    That's what I and the person who was made redundant thought. When the news of potential lay-offs was announced I worked out what I'd get at 4+2 and was tempted, I even had a few interviews lined up but I'm glad I didn't follow through.

    Dell was giving 6 weeks 20 years ago, At the time statutory was half a week!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,440 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    TimHorton wrote: »
    Dell was giving 6 weeks 20 years ago, At the time statutory was half a week!

    I took redundancy from Dell 12yrs ago at 6weeks ex Gratia plus statutory of 2 weeks.

    My advice would be to seek an ex Gratia.
    Also, if you are expected to train someone in?
    Your role isn't redundant, they are just cutting ties with you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭ TimHorton


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    That's what I and the person who was made redundant thought. When the news of potential lay-offs was announced I worked out what I'd get at 4+2 and was tempted, I even had a few interviews lined up but I'm glad I didn't follow through.

    They get the 2 weeks back from the state so the Company giving 1 week per year of service is a disgrace...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    TimHorton wrote: »
    Dell was giving 6 weeks 20 years ago, At the time statutory was half a week!

    The Union earned their money there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭ TimHorton


    banie01 wrote: »
    I took redundancy from Dell 12yrs ago at 6weeks ex Gratia plus statutory.

    My advice would be to seek an ex Gratia.
    Also, if you are expected to train someone in?
    Your role isn't redundant, they are just cutting ties with you.

    Some Dell Limerick Workers got way more than 2 yrs Salary (It was originally capped at 2 years) but Dell agreed to pay more after the legal case, Dell exited Limerick with dignity IMO.

    I worked for Dell in Dublin and left in 2002 with a fair package after 5 years working for them.

    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/dell-workers-to-go-to-court-over-redundancy-terms


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭ TimHorton


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    The Union earned their money there.

    No Union involved - Dell Ireland was a good company to work for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,704 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    TigerPhil wrote: »
    My role is being made redundant mostly because of a takeover a few years ago.

    I’ve been offered statutory redundancy but it looks like an opening offer. They will need my help in training someone in.

    What are the nice and official phrases or reasons I can use to encourage a better payment?

    If you need to train someone in the role is not redundant. They may be able to do that if your role was merging with another employees role. However length of employment co es into play here.

    There was an unfair dismissal case a few years ago where a company tried to artifically create such a scenario. They put a second employee who had longer service at the same task as another employee. They then after 6-12 months decided to downsize it back to one employee and make redundant the person who was in the role longest. It cost them serious money.

    You need to look at the situation and see if similar applies. If it dose then you have a strong negotiation position

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,157 ✭✭✭ baldbear


    My company give 6 weeks and you get 2 from the date so total of 8 weeks.

    Giving statutory is miserable imo


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭ TimHorton


    baldbear wrote: »
    My company give 6 weeks and you get 2 from the date so total of 8 weeks.

    Giving statutory is miserable imo

    Absolutely , It's Pathetic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,704 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    baldbear wrote: »
    My company give 6 weeks and you get 2 from the date so total of 8 weeks.

    Giving statutory is miserable imo

    Big MN in general will give decent packages, larger companies much the same. Small owner managed companies seldom give much with statutory.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,440 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    The Union earned their money there.

    As TimHorton has said, no union involved.
    Dell were a good company to work for.
    Good benefits, were happy to pay for education and training and in general made a decent effort to engage with staff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭ TimHorton


    banie01 wrote: »
    As TimHorton has said, no union involved.
    Dell were a good company to work for.
    Good benefits, were happy to pay for education and training and in general made a decent effort to engage with staff.

    I worked with a guy who had 6 kids , All VHI covered for his entire family.


  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭ BobbyBingo


    TimHorton wrote: »
    They get the 2 weeks back from the state so the Company giving 1 week per year of service is a disgrace...

    They don't. The rebate was abolished in 2013. Employer funds statutory entirely now unless they are insolvent at which point employee can claim from social insurance fund.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 42 TigerPhil


    AmberGold wrote: »
    Not a simple question OP.

    How much service do you have, is there a genuine need for redundancy due to a downturn in business?
    How have you been selected relative to your peers? This could be a dismissal dressed up as a redundancy. A merger is not a reason for redundancy and process must be followed to make the selection fair to all.

    An offer of statutory is meagre, that fact that you have to train someone suggests your role is not being made redundant. Now is not the time to be looking for a new role and every week you drag this process out is another weeks wages.

    Someone suggested that you threaten to leave right away. Not the approach I’d take, start off with how much you enjoyed working there and the commitment you’ve given / how much you need the job. Is there a chance to apply for another role in the business and have they considered these options.

    There’s a number of ways to approach this, I’d be getting the question answered as to whether there’s an enhanced package on offer fairly quickly. This would dictate my next steps.
    Yes, there's an enhanced package on offer IF I can choose the words correctly. Then the paperwork gets done. Not sure how the Telecoms/Energy average is. Also, it's been intimated that I could get a consultancy rate to train the newbie (who will be quite junior).


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 TigerPhil


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Statutory is the bare minimum they can pay you and for that they should get the bare minimum in return.

    If they need your help to facilitate a handover then ask for 4 week plus statutory and see how you get on.

    My employer, multinational, paid 3 week which included statutory to some colleagues this year.
    Looking at a lot of years x 3. What are the nice words for getting more?


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 TigerPhil


    cronos wrote: »
    I'd get an email explaining who needs to be trained and what they need to be trained for, ideally including their job title.

    If it's the same job title then it's not a redundancy IMO at which point you have them legally I would think (although seek legal advice first). In fact if they tried to dismiss you at that point they would dig a hole even worse.

    Proving all the above would be time consuming so once you have all the info you could instead of going the legal route negotiate the best possible package. Be careful what's in writing from your end, talk in person.
    Basically they want a cheaper person there and need to pay me off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 TigerPhil


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    The Union earned their money there.
    6 weeks per year. Now how do I get that? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭ TimHorton


    Some larger companies now don't even bother with disciplinary/redundancy processes/procedures, The employee is made a generous take or leave it offer with a threat that if they do not accept the offer they will defend any legal action by the employees and will take years to get a result. An employee generally accepts the offer and that's the end of the matter and everyone moves on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,704 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    TigerPhil wrote: »
    Looking at a lot of years x 3. What are the nice words for getting more?

    A lot of redundancy deals are capped at two years salary especially if the wages are on the higher end of the spectrum ( above 50k). If you are there a long time you can used the enhanced VL tax free allowance ( SCSB). It might mean that alot of any payment is tax free.

    One other thing to be aware you can endanger your redundancy tax free payment by working for them directly in a consultancy role.

    I be following AG's advice

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭ TimHorton


    Dell could have walked away but gave low-skilled box shifters in some cases 2 years' pay when they left Limerick. https://socialistparty.ie/2009/02/dell-concessions/

    Did you know that around the time 1998-2002 you could not sign on for social welfare in Limerick unless Dell had turned you down for a job, Any new claimant for the dole was told to apply to Dell for a Job, The claim would not be progressed unless they had a Dell refusal letter.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lots of places will give 4 weeks plus the 2 statutory

    Everyday you seem to post this exact statement, any credible source to backup.

    It seems very specific, as other posters have said there is no obligation beyond the 2 weeks so you are raising expectations unrealistically in my opinion when you know almost nothing about the situation including the company (motives, morale compass, how are they for money, are they shutting down or down sizing, is it just that site, is it just Ireland impacted etc etc) and employee (is it a way of getting rid of a poor / troublesome employee, replace with a much cheaper resource, will it impact morale etc etc)


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 TigerPhil


    So is that 4 weeks per year x gross, plus the statutory (600 x 2 weeks per year + 1 week)?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭ AmberGold


    Yes, although some companies work off Basic Salary / more generous ones On Target Earnings (if in sales), others companies I have worked use average earning over the previous two years.

    Although to echo Mayofan some just pay statutory and that's it.

    Make sure and let us know how this plays out OP, hate contributing to a thread like this to not know the outcome.


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