Site in rural area in Meath

R75MM

Hi,
Some advice, please.

I have a field of land in a rural location in Meath. My family are well established in the Local community and run a rural farm directly beside this land. I'm based in Dublin having purchased my own house some time ago.

The plan was always that I would build my own house on my field in Meath, however the reality is that I don't have any interest in living there now. So, my plan is now to sell a site on this field - keeping the rest of the field.

As you may know, applying for planning permission in a rural area is very difficult, due to the need to satisfy a 'local needs assessment' which I know I am unable to.

On speaking to a local architect whom knows the land and our family he has suggested that another member of my family could apply for planning permission on my land with my consent. This family member would be able to satisfy the requirements for 'local needs'.

Sorry for the the long context above, now down to my questions :

1. If my family member agrees to help me with the planning permission, do they have to own the site in advance? Could they claim any rights? Is there any risk for them? Am I missing anything? Basically their name 'on paper only'?!

2. If planning permission is granted, in this "low pressure" area could I use this permission to build myself, then sell? (architect did say we need to watch out for any conditions on approval)

Alternatively...

3. Again, with planning permission granted in my family member's name, do I need to change the name on the permission to sell site with FPP?

Or, am I better to sell the site now and let new owner design their own home and apply themselves for planning? I did not explore this option with the architect as I feel that this option would limit my buyers to locals only - I'm not prepared to ask family members help a unknown 3rd party apply for planning permission for their own dream.

What would you do or Anything else I should consider?

I'm only in the pre-pre-pre planning stage really. I'm awaiting a reply from my solicitors also but just thought I'd ask here.

Thanks,
R7

muffler

A lot of questions most of which (if not all) could be answered by your architect.

In no particular order a family member can apply with your written consent and hopefully get PP. No need for ownership of the site. However that will be recorded against their name should they ever "genuinely" apply for PP for their own house.

Very doubtful if you could get PP, build and sell yourself as there will be occupancy conditions applied on the grant of PP.

You cant change the name on a permission.

You can agree to sell a site subject to planning. The potential buyer would have to satisfy the rural housing policies of the Council. If he / she does then they apply for PP and if granted they then buy the site at that stage.

R75MM

muffler wrote: »

A lot of questions most of which (if not all) could be answered by your architect.

In no particular order a family member can apply with your written consent and hopefully get PP. No need for ownership of the site. However that will be recorded against their name should they ever "genuinely" apply for PP for their own house.

Very doubtful if you could get PP, build and sell yourself as there will be occupancy conditions applied on the grant of PP.

You cant change the name on a permission.

You can agree to sell a site subject to planning. The potential buyer would have to satisfy the rural housing policies of the Council. If he / she does then they apply for PP and if granted they then buy the site at that stage.

Thanks very much. To be honest I just wanted a second opinion on this which you've provided, thank you again.

May I please clarify one point which you noted above. "occupancy condition" may be applied - if I understand correctly that might be applied by the council regardless for who actually builds the house, correct?

This "occupancy condition" is placed on the planning permission grant notice, correct? Or is there a nuance I'm not understanding here?

I fully understand that even if I go for planning permission, there is no guarantees but I just want to be fully sure that I'm really only risking the amount of money I "invest" in the architect and planning permission process - both costs are 'controllable' so to speak.

-R7

GooglePlus

Are you in need of the money from the sale of the land/potential property right now?

It's not a bad place to have wealth stored. You sell it now and you're left with cash that will depreciate. Weird times as well, hard to know what way things are going to go but if you're planning on using the cash to put it straight back toward a home of your own elsewhere, I'd try and get the planning with the land. A lot of money around and you'll have a buyer for that in no time.

R75MM

GooglePlus wrote: »

Are you in need of the money from the sale of the land/potential property right now?

It's not a bad place to have wealth stored. You sell it now and you're left with cash that will depreciate. Weird times as well, hard to know what way things are going to go but if you're planning on using the cash to put it straight back toward a home of your own elsewhere, I'd try and get the planning with the land. A lot of money around and you'll have a buyer for that in no time.

Thanks,
Your thinking more or less along my lines. While I'm not right now in need of the money the land is not worth anything to me 'as is'. By converting to a site with full planning permission and selling, I could use that money to pay off my own mortgage in Dublin and be debt free.

With the advent of home working, good local internet and very quick access to a motorway with Dublin 1hr away I would like to have the option the realize some value within the next few years.

There's also a new county development plan coming along next year which may make my plan harder. Should I get planning permission, I have then 4?-5? years to decide what to do before selling or building or building and then selling.

-R7

muffler

R75MM wrote: »

May I please clarify one point which you noted above. "occupancy condition" may be applied - if I understand correctly that might be applied by the council regardless for who actually builds the house, correct?

This "occupancy condition" is placed on the planning permission grant notice, correct? Or is there a nuance I'm not understanding here?

Different Councils will have different rural housing policies but my understanding is that each will impose a condition requiring the applicant to enter into a Section 47 agreement. This means that the applicant can't sell the property for a period of 7 years (there are exceptions but rare). I would advise you to check the Meath CoCo website and look for the County Development Plan and in that look for the rural housing policies.

Im in Donegal so I just picked a random planning application that was granted recently and here is the condition that is applied on the planning permission ....

2. (i) The premises the subject of this permission shall (when constructed) be used for the purposes of a dwelling and subject to paragraph (iii) below the following restrictions shall apply during the period of seven years commencing on the first such use –
(a) The dwelling shall be used as the principal place of residence of the applicant or with the written consent of the Planning Authority by persons who belong to the same category of housing need as the Applicant (being those three categories and exceptional circumstances of need described in Policy RH-P-3 in the County Donegal Development Plan 2018-2024), and
(b) This permission will inure only for the benefit of the land and such persons entitled to use the dwelling as per paragraph (a) above, and
(c) The above restrictions will be embodied in an agreement under Section 47 of the Planning and Development Act, 2000 (as amended) to be entered into on the first application being made for written consent per paragraph (a) above and where a consent is granted the entry into the agreement will be a condition precedent of such consent.
(ii) Within two months of the first use/occupation of the dwelling, the Applicant will submit to the Planning Authority written confirmation of the person(s) using/occupying the dwelling in accordance with paragraph (a) and the date of commencement of such use/occupation.
(iii) The above restrictions shall cease to apply (earlier than the seven year period stipulated) on a sale of the dwelling by a mortgagee in possession but excluding the use of the dwellinghouse as a holiday home.

R75MM

muffler wrote: »

Different Councils will have different rural housing policies but my understanding is that each will impose a condition requiring the applicant to enter into a Section 47 agreement. This means that the applicant can't sell the property for a period of 7 years (there are exceptions but rare). I would advise you to check the Meath CoCo website and look for the County Development Plan and in that look for the rural housing policies.

Im in Donegal so I just picked a random planning application that was granted recently and here is the condition that is applied on the planning permission ....

Thanks again, that makes sense. I'll certainly go though all that with the architect should I decide to proceed, however I think he is happy this won't apply given that it's a "low pressure area" (as he called it).

Understood, there may well be some other restriction placed on the permission if granted, for me that may well be an acceptable risk but I'll obviously explore this as much as I can before going to far in the process.

Thanks for all the responses, reasonably comfortable that I have a good understanding of the risks - pending a conversation with my solicitor and family members.

For me the big thing was understanding that a family can - in most cases - apply for the permission regardless of current or future land ownership.

Regards,
-R7