Can't agree about moving

LegacyUser

Hi all, anon for this.

My partner and I have been together for a few years now. I've always been open about wanting to one day live in London, just for a couple of years, as there's one dream company that I feel very passionate about.

My partner looked applying for a job in London before the pandemic, but we both knew that I couldn't move at the time as I would never manage to get into my industry there with no experience and there was nowhere I could find to gain experience even as an intern. He decided not to go for it as he was very happy in his current role anyway.

I've told my partner I'm thinking of getting in touch with people in the dream company in London, just to network, start getting my name out there, etc. I'm expecting that nothing will come from this but if it does, it probably won't be for another year or two as it's a slow-moving industry where persistence with networking pays off.

My partner isn't Irish but long-term wants to settle down here. However if I do get a job in London, he has said he'll want to move with me – but he won't want to move back to Ireland. He thinks it's too much effort for both of us to uproot our lives twice and he will want to settle in the UK.

I know this is only hypothetical at the moment but it's playing on my mind quite a bit. Some people I know have moved to London and loved it, others hated it and moved back within the year. I don't want to apply for my dream job in London now, knowing that if we do move, he'll never move back here with me. But I can't live knowing that I never tried.

This was always my plan and my dream – get experience in Ireland and once I was confident, start laying the groundwork to try and get a job in London, and then eventually return to Dublin to settle – and he knew that and supported it. I'm almost afraid now to email my dream company in case a best case scenario happens and they want me, and then I'm stuck deciding what to do with my boyfriend.

TheadoreT

I mean you're getting about a dozen steps ahead of yourself here. Forward planning is good to an extent but to invisage fallings out with your partner potentially 5-ish years down the line from now seems a bit pointless. Neither of you know how you'll feel then so cross that bridge closer to the time. He probably knows more than you do about upheaving a life to move elsewhere, its costly both emotionally and financially so perhaps you'll have a different perspective if you do go.

You've also used the word dream a lot there and from what I've read not done a great deal about pursuing it so he may be a little dismissive and could think you're a bit of a dreamer and all talk and no action. Sometimes you gotta dive right in there instead of posturing from afar.

Xterminator

Hi Op

I think you might be getting in your own head a bit here. take a step back.

Are you happy with the relationship in general? Do you want to build your life with this person? Do you have similar goals for the future?

If the answer is yes, then stop worry about a hypothetical situation that might never occur.

Cross that bridge when you come to it, if you come to it. i cant tell you if in 5 years time you will want to have a family, if he will want a family, if you will love or hate london, if he will like it there etc. too many variables. Live your life take risks, and dont sabotage things on yourself worrying about the what if's.

Sonic the Shaghog

To be honest I have to say I can see his point too. It's a lot of pissing around for the sake of a year or two with a company in London and then back over again depending on your ages.

If you are early to mid 20s maybe understandable but if your older and in a settling down mindset I'd find it awful oul nonsense for a company that's very slow moving as you put it, I mean could you spend the next 2 years "Networking" and then another 2 years working for them? That's 4 years of not being able to make any concrete plans at all for him, then you expect to move back to Dublin to settle could easily be another 1/2 years finding a house to buy or do up etc

It's a lot of uncertainty for something you only have notions of doing for a year or two. But as I said your ages would have a big bearing on it too.

bitofabind

This is a lot of hypotheticals and no concrete action whatsoever. Why didn't you reach out to the "dream company" before the pandemic? Why didn't you start networking then, if it's going to take so long to get a break into the company? What has changed now, if you weren't ready to do any of this two years ago?

Perhaps your partner is tired of all of the talk and is calling your bluff. He's also got the benefit of experience in uprooting his life and starting again abroad, it's exhausting, expensive, can throw your timeline way off in terms of career / financial / life goals as it can take so long to get integrated into your new home country.

Also, what's the net goal with getting a few years experience at this company? If the plan will always be to leave and come back home? Is it a career progression goal? Not sure what industry you're in, but I can tell you as someone who's lived abroad for years, impressive international experience isn't always as big of an advantage on home turf as you would think. Some employers can consider you out of the loop as far as the local Irish network is concerned.

Rubberchikken

Dreams don't always work out. You could wait 4 years networking/whatever and find 4 years have passed with nothing to show.
Are you willing to do that,?
In the meantime your partner is working away and may by then reach a stage where staying put is his preference.

I think there are a lot of references to dream in your post and not much in the way of certainty. Talk with him and see what actually can be achieved.

Good luck

Big Bag of Chips

If it's your dream company, why would you want to leave it? What would you be coming home to?

I think at this stage you need to stop thinking about what-if and just get on with living your life. Nothing is guaranteed. You might never get a job in the dream company. You might not last to the end of this year with your bf. All this angst over something that's at this stage not even a possibility. It could be a year or 2 at best.

Your bf is as entitled to make a hypothetical plan as you are. Although his seems more concrete. If he moves, and settles, he's staying. That seems reasonable. He shouldn't be expected to trot along behind you chasing one whim after another.

You seem to want to keep all your options open, keep one foot in each door and not actually commit to anything. Which if you're a single person is fine. You have a partner to consider, who has his own work/career situation to consider. I think if you move you need to commit to making it work longterm. If you think you won't be happy to settle there then I don't see the point in spending years chasing this dream job/company.

Ive heard of a dream job, ive never heard of a job with a specific dream company

It seems to me to be a really strange thing to ask someone to move your entire lives twice over

YellowLead

Is this potential move to London hinged on one specific job at one specific company???

If you don’t have enough experience to even get an internship it’s deffo very pie in the sky right now. It is a lot to ask for somebody to move countries with you, and then only for as long as you’d like? Not seeing the compromise coming from your side here.

If I were you I’d deal with it if and when it comes to it. You guys might not even still be together at that point, or you might feel differently. Also - there might be an opportunity to do this job remotely while living in Ireland.

So just focus on the hear and now and worry about this IF you get an offer. If it comes to it you might need to make a call ‘dream’ company job or bf but that’s only a call you can make, if you will even need to.

listermint

In case you haven't considered. If your partner is not Irish then moving to London for them may be like moving to US. As an Irish passport holder You have access to the CTA they won't..as such will have to jump through hoops for a visa.

UK is out of the EU now. So just upping sticks and going is gone as an option.

ztoical

Deleted User wrote: »

Ive heard of a dream job, ive never heard of a job with a specific dream company

It seems to me to be a really strange thing to ask someone to move your entire lives twice over

Depends on the industry. I work in animation and there are some studios people just want to work for regardless of the project as you just admire the work they do. It's also an industry were you are usually hired per project rather then full time employed by the company so you have a lot of people who come and work for 1 or 2 years then move on. For big cities like London it's not as big an issue as there are several companies you can work for but smaller locations it can be annoying as people find themselves always moving.

OP I only just moved back from a decade living in London. If you'd asked me when I moved if I'd stay longer then 2 years in London I would have told you no then after 10 years living there if I'd been asked if I'd move back to Ireland I'd have told you no but you just don't know what is going to happen, I got on well work wise in London and built up a good industry network but I got a job offer I couldn't say no to in Ireland. You don't know what is going to happen...you could both want to stay in London or move on somewhere else or move back here or you could break up. You can't plan around what ifs and maybes. I'd be asking more practical questions like can your OH live and work in the UK? Have you savings for the first few months there? Even with a job you'll need a good chunk of money to get step up as London is not cheap. Worrying about what you'll do 2 odd years from now isn't worth

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ive heard of a dream job, ive never heard of a job with a specific dream company

It seems to me to be a really strange thing to ask someone to move your entire lives twice over

The reality to break into some niche careers you have to move to them to get experience.

Flinty997

cantagreeaboutmoving wrote: »

....
My partner isn't Irish but long-term wants to settle down here. However if I do get a job in London, he has said he'll want to move with me – but he won't want to move back to Ireland. He thinks it's too much effort for both of us to uproot our lives twice and he will want to settle in the UK. ....

If he had a difficulty getting a job maybe it would be more understandable. I wonder is it really about not wanting to leave Ireland at all.

leggo

Yeah I’d feel largely the same as everyone else. OP your plan sounds wishy-washy at best, not realistic or compatible with real life (or at least one with an ongoing relationship). That isn’t to slate the plan: it’s your life and you’re more than entitled to your plans, but it’d be impossible as a partner to plan around them. Basically a partner would need to be happy to uproot their life, move their own career goals, then get temporarily setup somewhere else but not get successful enough that they’d wish to stay permanently, then be happy to move back home when you’ve had enough of your dream career (do people just ‘have enough’ of their dream job anyway??)

They’d have to commit to all of that convoluted plan to take you seriously. Do you see why that’s difficult?

Look OP, live your life instead of trying to control it and others’ too. If this is what you want to do, just do it and deal with the consequences as you go. Don’t give up dream career opportunities for partners (unless you’re in deep with mortgage, kids etc) because the relationship may not work out. If you both want it to work enough, it will, and that’s true whether you want to live and work in the same town or different countries.

What you can’t do, though, is expect him to commit to your complicated plan. That’s totally unfair because the plan in itself has you one foot in and one foot out, you haven’t even fully committed to it yourself tbh. So to me it comes across as you just projecting your frustration at not knowing what you want to do at him. And that’d drive me up the wall even if I loved a partner tbh.

LegacyUser

OP here. Thanks for all the comments.

My original post was a lot longer and I cut a fair bit out about my career, so it does probably come across like I'm full of notions. I'm out of college a few years and have worked incredibly hard to have gotten the experience I need to now start networking with people in the UK to put myself on their radar.

I'm in a company that's one of the top three 'places to be' in Ireland for the industry (there's about 60 companies that do the same thing around the country, most are much smaller) so I know that I'm already fortunate to be where I am and my life something others dream about (I used to dream about it!).

We're both 26 and neither of us are looking to settle for another few years. My partner is actually Welsh so moving to the UK isn't a problem for him in terms of a visa or anything. He spent a couple of years moving around different parts of the UK and Ireland for work before being promoted to a role based here.

The comparison to animation is very close to the industry I'm in. It's small, everyone in the top 10 companies knows everyone, everyone has specific dream jobs and/or companies. Only four people in Dublin have what's basically the same job as I want to go to London for, except the London version is on a bigger scale – bigger projects, bigger teams, better resources, etc. It'd kinda be like wanting to work in the BBC but working for RTÉ. Both great places to work but it's just on a different scale.

So don't get me wrong – I would be ecstatic to get that job here. I love the company I'm in, I love the projects, I'm incredibly proud to be a part of it. I'm already in the running if the job comes up here but there are currently another three people internally who would also be in the running for the position.

I'm confident that if I work hard enough and just be patient, I will get the job here, even if I have to wait for one or two people to get it before I do. The managers are always very fair and reward hard workers and talent. But by trying to get the same role in London, it's like giving myself an extra chance at getting it.

The company I'm in in Dublin has never looked to fill the roles externally but the London company has, so I figure I may as well throw my name in the hat. If it doesn't happen with the London company, I'll honestly be happy knowing I tried.

And I don't know where I'll be in two years anyway – I could get the job here and be incredibly happy, or I could get another job that becomes my new 'dream.' The department is growing a lot here at the moment so this could even become 'the place to be' over the UK anyway.

And in terms of my partner 'following me' across to London, I never asked him to go and wouldn't expect him to. I somehow forgot this until now, but he actually applied for two jobs in London last year as well as that other job two years ago.

Even when we were dating, he told me he applied for jobs there but got the promotion here first (his interest in London was actually something I liked about him!). I can't remember exactly what happened last year, whether he was moving alone or with me, but the 'not moving back to Ireland' thing is definitely new.

qwerty13

I know it’s your dream. But is it an attainable dream? It seems all very wishy washy right now, and that you want your partner to sign up for very concrete things like moving country and job - twice! - for a pipe dream.

As others have said:
1) what action have you planned or taken towards your dream?
2) what concrete gains will you make during your planned time with this company, and how will that translate into real work when you move back to Ireland?
3) what are you willing to sacrifice or compromise on for your partner, if he is to move country and job twice for you?
4) also a good point others have made re Brexit. How does that position your partner?

Big Bag of Chips

Your bf being from the UK makes a lot of sense with regards to his position on this. He has moved from there to here. He is considering moving back for work. If/when he does he doesn't intend up rooting after a couple of years and coming back here again. I think that's sensible. Otherwise, career wise, he looks flaky.

You want the experience of working over there but with the end goal of coming back. If/when you came back would you consider going back over there to settle?

What is the issue for you right now, OP? What is the impact of this announcement from your bf on you today? Are you going to now not try work towards a job in the dream company because of your bf's decision? Or are you going to carry on as planned and hope to be offered a job.. In about 2 years time?

I understand the plan you had in your head moving over for a while, and moving back again, has now had a spanner thrown in. But how does that affect your plan? What I'm trying to say is, any actual decision on this is a long way off. So why not continue as you had always planned and cross whatever bridge when it comes?

Flinty997

Personally I don't think moving between UK and Ireland is as big a deal as people are making out.

listermint

Flinty997 wrote: »

Personally I don't think moving between UK and Ireland is as big a deal as people are making out.

Tbf no one made it out to be a big deal. Just made valid points about working rights which it seems he has. And also the OPs partner didn't want to move twice so in essence the issue of back forth was his.


As for the job. Frankly I'd be very wary about lifting and shifting jobs to London right now. There's swathes of industries in decline . Having no idea exactly what the role is buy broadcasting was mentioned the UK have lost equivalency rights to Europe . There alot of road to play out in this brexit thing and other close Geo's including Dublin could come out ahead vastly. Based on that alone id be really putting in the serious research on everything from politics to contracts awarding so you know how the field is.

TheadoreT

It's all a bit childish and self centered sounding. On the one hand putting your career first is fine- that's a choice many people make but expecting any partner to jump on board all elements of your very haphazard plan is completely unreasonable and unrealistic. If anything this guy is going further than most would by agreeing to the first part in theory.
I wonder if you're as wishy washy on him in general as you are your life plans? Seems a very convoluted set of expectations you have for him without a great deal of care for his life which doesn't really pertain to love in my opinion. If your absolute "dream job" is in London and he is was your ideal partner, is the thought of settling just a hop across the pond for love so bad?

Flinty997

listermint wrote: »

Tbf no one made it out to be a big deal. Just made valid points about working rights which it seems he has. And also the OPs partner didn't want to move twice so in essence the issue of back forth was his.

They really are. Its world job market. Ireland is a backwater for many careers. People don't have a problem coming here to work. We shouldn't have a problem being mobile and moving around anywhere in the world.

Not that this is an issue of moving for work. It just someone who doesn't like moving. (or just prefers Ireland).

listermint wrote: »

As for the job. Frankly I'd be very wary about lifting and shifting jobs to London right now. There's swathes of industries in decline . Having no idea exactly what the role is buy broadcasting was mentioned the UK have lost equivalency rights to Europe . There alot of road to play out in this brexit thing and other close Geo's including Dublin could come out ahead vastly. Based on that alone id be really putting in the serious research on everything from politics to contracts awarding so you know how the field is.

Depends. For example, AFAIK if you were the Gaming Industry its booming and most of it in Europe, is in London. Who knows.

That said best to be cautious. Though I imagine few industries or sectors will actually disappear, eventually they'll all come back, regardless if its Covid or brexit, that caused a decline.

Tork

Even though you say you're not ready to settle down yet, maybe that's something that's in the back of his mind and he's thinking longer term. There comes a time when tearing over and back across the Irish Sea grows old and maybe he's getting to there sooner than you are. Also, we've learned over the last year or so that we can't take international travel for granted. Like many Irish people, I have family and friends in the UK and it was always comforting to know that they were just a short plane ride away. That is currently off the table for most of us and there are people who haven't got to see their family in person for a long time now. That might be giving some food for thought.

Flinty997

There's a lot of families split between UK and Ireland and lots even work across both regions (or did), so frequent travel between the two is very common. But then I do know people who want to commit to one place and not feel like its temporary. No right answer, its usually a compromise of some sort.

Goose76

Be careful with this “dream company”. You’ll never know what somewhere is like to work until you actually work there. What makes it a “dream”? Is it the salary? If salary, what about work life balance? If it’s because the work is interesting or great exposure as you say, will you be compensated well enough to sustain a happy and healthy lifestyle in somewhere as expensive as London? If it’s the “culture”, is there security and benefits? Etc etc.

I have recently accepted a new job so I can speak to how crucial it is to weigh up ALL options before making any kind of move. Sometimes these companies which promote themselves as “dream” companies are actually hellish for some people, depending on personality, life priorities, etc. E.g: I would flat out hate to work for Google and they are known for being a “dream” company for many.

leggo

Honestly OP, I know it’s easy for me to say but I think your main issue here is you’re trying to control all the variables in a situation you ultimately don’t have much control of. If you were able to take things a step at a time, dealing with challenges as they arise and the consequences of each choice, not only will you probably end up in the exact same place as you would with the worrying…but you’ll end up there much less stressed.

Life can’t be controlled. But you’ll forget to live if you spend all your time trying to anticipate, plan for or anticipate every potential outcome that may not even arise. Live your life and trust that things will work out as they’re supposed to in the meantime.

Slutmonkey57b

Simple question : If the "dream role" is occupied by 4 people in this country now, and it's a "dead man's shoes" affair to get one of them, why do you think that would change in the few years you'd be away?

Suddenly someone would go "Oh right you wanted Mary's job a few years ago, i had no reason to ditch her then but let's see.... WHOA! LONDON! HR, get Mary's p45 ready, we've got a londoner here!"
?? Your plan makes no sense. If the job prospects are better in London right now then it is a safe bet the job prospects will always be better in London, so if you're moving for your career specifically, then you should assume that career will keep you there. Not that you'll slip back in 4 years time to a position someone's opening up for you.