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Gibralter votes to update abortion legislation

  • 25-06-2021 9:06am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,663 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    Gibralter voted yesterday to update its abortion legislation, My GF is from Gibraltar and has been quite vocal and passionate about this on Gibraltan news and websites.

    A shame to see the results were only 62% in favour of change but either way a good result for the women of Gib.

    https://www.chronicle.gi/gibraltar-votes-to-ease-abortion-laws/
    There were roaring cheers, applause and tears last night as Gibraltar heard the outcome of the abortion referendum, with 62% voting yes to enact new legislation legalising terminations under defined conditions


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭ Waldo99


    That is quite a large majority for what is usually a contentious subject, and you are happy with the outcome.

    Why are you disappointed that your cup is only 2/3 full?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,663 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    Waldo99 wrote: »
    That is quite a large majority for what is usually a contentious subject, and you are happy with the outcome.

    Why are you disappointed that your cup is only 2/3 full?

    I'm very happy with the outcome, I would have preferred a larger majority, the church still has too much of a hold over there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭ nozzferrahhtoo


    Wasn't it 67% here in Ireland and we considered that a roaring victory and that the "no" side had pretty much not only been trounced but trounced themselves by relying almost entirely on semantic and emotional arguments due to a lack of ANY actual moral or ethical arguments against abortion?

    So 62% is not too bad really. Were the quality of the "no" arguments over there any less embarrassing for them than the ones here were?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,663 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    Wasn't it 67% here in Ireland and we considered that a roaring victory and that the "no" side had pretty much not only been trounced but trounced themselves by relying almost entirely on semantic and emotional arguments due to a lack of ANY actual moral or ethical arguments against abortion?

    So 62% is not too bad really. Were the quality of the "no" arguments over there any less embarrassing for them than the ones here were?

    Pretty much the same type of argument.
    Some anti-abortion campaigners branded the proposed law's wording extreme, arguing it could be interpreted as allowing abortion beyond the first 12 weeks

    Fair play to the no campaign staff though, Gibralter is a small community where near enough everyone knows each other so more pressure from the anti abortion side with family/friends/neighbours etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭ donaghs


    Gibralter voted yesterday to update its abortion legislation, My GF is from Gibraltar and has been quite vocal and passionate about this on Gibraltan news and websites.

    A shame to see the results were only 62% in favour of change but either way a good result for the women of Gib.

    https://www.chronicle.gi/gibraltar-votes-to-ease-abortion-laws/

    While I'm in favour of having abortion available, its their democracy. Only 52% of the electorate voted, and 62% of them voted in favour of this.

    If "the women of Gib" really thought this was such a great thing, they would have voted in bigger numbers.
    Fair play to the no campaign staff though, Gibralter is a small community where near enough everyone knows each other so more pressure from the anti abortion side with family/friends/neighbours etc.

    Its a secret ballot. Sounds like you've wouldnt be too respectful of the opposing sides arguments either!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,663 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    donaghs wrote: »
    While I'm in favour of having abortion available, its their democracy. Only 52% of the electorate voted, and 62% of them voted in favour of this.

    If "the women of Gib" really thought this was such a great thing, they would have voted in bigger numbers.

    As you said, it was a secret ballot, maybe most of the people who voted were the female population of gibralter.


    Its a secret ballot. Sounds like you've wouldnt be too respectful of the opposing sides arguments either!

    I've no issue with people having an opposite position to mine, I do have an issue when the opposition tell blatant lies.

    Do you believe people should lie in an attempt to win such an important referendum?


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,116 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    donaghs wrote: »
    While I'm in favour of having abortion available, its their democracy. Only 52% of the electorate voted, and 62% of them voted in favour of this.

    If "the women of Gib" really thought this was such a great thing, they would have voted in bigger numbers.

    maybe they did. is there a gender breakdown of who voted?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭ donaghs


    
    
    As you said, it was a secret ballot, maybe most of the people who voted were the female population of gibralter.


    I've no issue with people having an opposite position to mine, I do have an issue when the opposition tell blatant lies.

    Do you believe people should lie in an attempt to win such an important referendum?

    No I don’t believe people should lie. Sorry, I didn’t read the campaign materials in any depth, just stories in the media.

    It’s not scientific, but I actually find women tend be slightly more “conservative” with a small c than men - IN GENERAL. Thats conservative in regard to being wary of radical changes on things like abortion. not necessarily in voting for specific parties which may call themselves “conservative”, “labour” or whatever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭ nozzferrahhtoo


    donaghs wrote: »
    If "the women of Gib" really thought this was such a great thing, they would have voted in bigger numbers.

    I know hardly anything about the country itself really. But I think "voter turnout" is a red herring in most countries. Any number of things can affect it. So much so that I never feel safe assuming how important the issue is.... or is not.... to the people who did not turn out.

    Users above have already pointed out that we do not know the gender breakdown of the people who DID vote. Was it predominantly women who came out to vote? If so, that would call your point into question too for example.

    What about Covid fears? How many people stayed away from voting for isolation reasons? Also one should compare the voter turn out RELATIVE to usual voter turn out in a country.... maybe such a turn out is the norm maybe not.... and so on....

    We could guess and guess and guess. Suffice to say however... that simply assuming lack of interest when voter turn out is low.... is simplistic and maybe not well founded.
    donaghs wrote: »
    Its a secret ballot. Sounds like you've wouldnt be too respectful of the opposing sides arguments either!

    I certainly have no respect for MOST of the opposing arguments from the "no" side in our own country of Ireland. They were monumentally bad arguments. Most of them were nothing to do with abortion at all.... but semantics around words like "baby" "murder" and "life".

    Others relied solely on using pictures to evoke emotional responses. We even had one user posting about what the tongue movements of a fetus "looked like" as an argument. If you can imagine that.

    I respect good arguments and disrespect bad arguments REGARDLESS of which side they come from. The Pro Choice side has some bad arguments too. During the referendum here in Ireland for example I argued very strongly for the Pro Choice side.... but I argued quite strongly AGAINST using things like "rape" and "incest" as arguments for that side.

    I myself tend to argue against bad arguments wherever I find them. Even if they are on "my side" of an issue I am passionate about. I don't play favorites :)


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