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Proposed changes to slurry spreading

  • 24-06-2021 8:40am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,793 ✭✭✭✭ Reggie.


    Be some craic if some of these nuggets get through


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,793 ✭✭✭✭ Reggie.


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Be some craic if some of these nuggets get through

    .


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,005 ✭✭✭✭ mahoney_j


    Reggie. wrote: »
    .

    Just proposals for now …..but some worrying stuff there ,storing all your soiled water/parlour washings will add serious expense ….the organic n will def be the most controversial …we can thank mr Brennan snd Tegasc for that ,we’re not all blessed to have big milk blocks …


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 tubosti


    I'll be happy enough if the reduce the amount of slurry spreading.
    A neighbor over the road is always spreading slurry, even on a Sunday.
    Cattle in the sheds all year round. Zero grazing and spreading slurry on the fields after.

    Hard to sit in the garden and look at the lake view when inhaling the smell of ****e.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Command


    Load of b——x that is sure having we seen the last few years where there has been to much rain to spread slurry in sept and often the driest spell comes after the dead line.. Encourage more spreading in wet weather


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,793 ✭✭✭✭ Reggie.


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Just proposals for now …..but some worrying stuff there ,storing all your soiled water/parlour washings will add serious expense ….the organic n will def be the most controversial …we can thank mr Brennan snd Tegasc for that ,we’re not all blessed to have big milk blocks …

    Could be better off extending the closed period forward into Feb rather than back into Sept. It would bring too much work into that month


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,908 ✭✭✭ Birdnuts


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Could be better off extending the closed period forward into Feb rather than back into Sept. It would bring too much work into that month

    I'd tend to agree with that - September will have signficantly higher soil temps, growth etc. than the averge february. Like alot or rules coming down the tracks in this area, it has been the actions of a minority who fire out slurry during the worst of the winter weather, heavy rainfall events, on frozen ground etc. that has brought this apon the rest of the farming community


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭ blackdog1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Just proposals for now …..but some worrying stuff there ,storing all your soiled water/parlour washings will add serious expense ….the organic n will def be the most controversial …we can thank mr Brennan snd Tegasc for that ,we’re not all blessed to have big milk blocks …

    Derogation will eventually be gotten rid of , then the only profitable cow will be the ones milking over 7000 litres but we won't be able to have many of those after this N increase comes in. Very short sighted by teagasc , this high ebi cow is looking like the hill their willing to die on. I would like the people who are proposing this to sign their names to the paper so they can go down in the history books.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,985 ✭✭✭ Mooooo


    Average yields are what the figures are calculated off of. The rest of Europe has a higher N figure associated with higher yielding cows, teagasc can do feck all about that.
    If we look at whats happened in Europe in order to retain dero we will probably be looking at 6 month storage, and need figures to back up any claims lower N ratings for cows


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    I'd tend to agree with that - September will have signficantly higher soil temps, growth etc. than the averge february. Like alot or rules coming down the tracks in this area, it has been the actions of a minority who fire out slurry during the worst of the winter weather, heavy rainfall events, on frozen ground etc. that has brought this apon the rest of the farming community

    Feb 20 would have been a grand slurry spreading month, most fields were water courses themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,091 ✭✭✭ GrasstoMilk


    blackdog1 wrote: »
    Derogation will eventually be gotten rid of , then the only profitable cow will be the ones milking over 7000 litres but we won't be able to have many of those after this N increase comes in. Very short sighted by teagasc , this high ebi cow is looking like the hill their willing to die on. I would like the people who are proposing this to sign their names to the paper so they can go down in the history books.

    These proposals weren't put forward by teagasc

    There was a public consultation on it plus the views of the dept - Jack Nolan et all

    Has zero to do with teagasc


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,005 ✭✭✭✭ mahoney_j


    These proposals weren't put forward by teagasc

    There was a public consultation on it plus the views of the dept - Jack Nolan et all

    Has zero to do with teagasc

    Tegasc are our advisory body and have been driving a particular production model ,the info and data they churn out would definitely have been taken into account


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭ jaymla627


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Average yields are what the figures are calculated off of. The rest of Europe has a higher N figure associated with higher yielding cows, teagasc can do feck all about that.
    If we look at whats happened in Europe in order to retain dero we will probably be looking at 6 month storage, and need figures to back up any claims lower N ratings for cows

    The kicker is 6 months covered storage, to go at a slatted tank now our slurry tower your talking a small fortune compared to last year, glanbia suppliers are royally f**ked in that we cant up numbers and dilute costs with extra milk going out the gate


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,044 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy


    Ultimately this is coming from the EU.
    Teagasc are told what to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,518 ✭✭✭ Say my name


    Danzy wrote: »
    Ultimately this is coming from the EU.
    Teagasc are told what to do.

    All the best stuff comes from the EU.
    Till someone travels other EU countries and begins to wonder..:p

    That's A.D. plants now in Ireland guarranteed a future and no problem getting source stock.
    "We're doing you a favour lads".

    There's an anti livestock element to this government in the dept but there's the save the world renewable energy big business crying to be taken care off too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭ jaymla627


    All the best stuff comes from the EU.
    Till someone travels other EU countries and begins to wonder..:p

    That's A.D. plants now in Ireland guarranteed a future and no problem getting source stock.
    "We're doing you a favour lads".

    There's an anti livestock element to this government in the dept but there's the save the world renewable energy big business crying to be taken care off too.

    Bnm ad plant thats planned for Portlaoise want the slurry hauled in foc and then will sell you the digestate, you couldnt make it up


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    Bnm ad plant thats planned for Portlaoise want the slurry hauled in foc and then will sell you the digestate, you couldnt make it up

    Slurry isn't that good in an anaerobic digester, In Europe farmers grow crops specifically for AD plants and the plants get paid more for electricity from those plants. It's ten years since I was in europe so might have changed since then..At that time AD plants were getting 25c for crop produced electricity, 15c/kw/hr for slurry produced electricty and in Ireland we were getting 9c with a limit on production


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    Bnm ad plant thats planned for Portlaoise want the slurry hauled in foc and then will sell you the digestate, you couldnt make it up

    A local has a site ready to go , planning permission got, and he says he'd have to charge for a gate fee for taking material for it


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭ jaymla627


    wrangler wrote: »
    A local has a site ready to go , planning permission got, and he says he'd have to charge for a gate fee for taking material for it

    Bin waste and dairy waste from plants is where the money is to be made from gate fees for ad plants, cattle slurry isnt a viable option as the variability of it where its been taken in from multiple sources means it seriously messes up production from the plant


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,005 ✭✭✭✭ mahoney_j


    Danzy wrote: »
    Ultimately this is coming from the EU.
    Teagasc are told what to do.

    It comes from the eu but bit far fetched to say Tegasc (our main advisory body)have no input into how the finer details are thrashed out in this country


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭ kevthegaff


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Just proposals for now …..but some worrying stuff there ,storing all your soiled water/parlour washings will add serious expense ….the organic n will def be the most controversial …we can thank mr Brennan snd Tegasc for that ,we’re not all blessed to have big milk blocks …

    I have heard of lads letting the dairy washings into soak pits,I find it great to keep the tanks watered down


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,856 ✭✭✭ straight


    Danzy wrote: »
    Ultimately this is coming from the EU.
    Teagasc are told what to do.

    When I saw what teagasc got written directly into legislation in the last derogation rules it left me in no doubt as to their influence. Its always the big bad EU until something good comes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭ J.O. Farmer


    wrangler wrote: »
    Slurry isn't that good in an anaerobic digester, In Europe farmers grow crops specifically for AD plants and the plants get paid more for electricity from those plants. It's ten years since I was in europe so might have changed since then..At that time AD plants were getting 25c for crop produced electricity, 15c/kw/hr for slurry produced electricty and in Ireland we were getting 9c with a limit on production

    I think most AD plants ideally need a mixture of materials anyway.

    On the 25c v 15c was that profit or what they were paying suppliers. At the end of the day a unit of electricity is the same thing regardless of his it was generated when it comes to using it.

    There would be differences in cost of generating it and in terms of environmental impact but were electricity companies willing to pay a 10c bonus for crop AD rather than slurry AD 10 years ago.

    25c/ unit looks high though too, it's only around that now including VAT to buy electricity on a standard rate. My last bill with energia was only about 21c/unit with standing charges etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    I think most AD plants ideally need a mixture of materials anyway.

    On the 25c v 15c was that profit or what they were paying suppliers. At the end of the day a unit of electricity is the same thing regardless of his it was generated when it comes to using it.

    There would be differences in cost of generating it and in terms of environmental impact but were electricity companies willing to pay a 10c bonus for crop AD rather than slurry AD 10 years ago.

    25c/ unit looks high though too, it's only around that now including VAT to buy electricity on a standard rate. My last bill with energia was only about 21c/unit with standing charges etc.

    This was germany where it was well subsidised. 25c /unit was paid to plants was for electricity generated from sugar beet and silage .
    German government were actively promoting it, the farms we were on had the generators enclosed and the heat generated drying timber and firewood in a big kiln


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    wrangler wrote: »
    This was germany where it was well subsidised. 25c /unit was paid to plants was for electricity generated from sugar beet and silage .
    German government were actively promoting it, the farms we were on had the generators enclosed and the heat generated drying timber and firewood in a big kiln

    15c/unit was paid for electricity generated from waste such as slurry or waste food


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭ J.O. Farmer


    wrangler wrote: »
    15c/unit was paid for electricity generated from waste such as slurry or waste food

    The greens were in government there for a while back then I think so maybe that explains it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭ vincenzolorenzo


    Don't know the economics of AD but I expect it will need a fairly heavily subsidised price to get it off the ground. For context the current wholesale market price for generation is in the 9-10 c/kWh region and this is higher than it has been for several years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,985 ✭✭✭ Mooooo


    AD and renewable has made german electricity prices soar due to make it viable. Cheapest electricity in EU afaik is in France, nuclear


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭ jaymla627


    Don't know the economics of AD but I expect it will need a fairly heavily subsidised price to get it off the ground. For context the current wholesale market price for generation is in the 9-10 c/kWh region and this is higher than it has been for several years.

    15 cent kwh hour is the breakeven i think for efficent plants with cheap sources of waste/crops etc will be over 20 cent for a Irish set-up given the costs of land rental and issues with finding land near the plants


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,044 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy


    Mooooo wrote: »
    AD and renewable has made german electricity prices soar due to make it viable. Cheapest electricity in EU afaik is in France, nuclear

    Nuclear is cheap beacuse the State covers the cost of plant decommissioning and waste disposal. In most countries the cost of construction is given massive grants and the rest written off.

    Nuclear has a place for base load in big countries but the economics are off the wall.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,897 ✭✭✭ Bleating Lamb


    Saw a piece in Farmers Journal about an aereation system that can be installed on the floor of slatted tanks...powered by electricity,when on it agitates and move the slurry gradually. and seemingly improves its value as a fertiliser iykwim .....

    You save on the cost of getting slurry agitated before putting it out if you are getting a contractor in......was about 13k for a 6 bay slatted shed so would be a while paying for itself but I suppose if you were spreading your own slurry it might pay for itself quicker.....

    Realistically would only be a possible runner for big farms.


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