Games crashing but system solid

manshay

I've built a new system,
MSI MPG X570 gaming edge wifi
Ryzen 5 5600x with the stock cooler
RTX 3070 Founders Edition
Corsair SSD Force MP600 M.2 Nvme
2*8GB G.Skill Ripjaws V
Corsair CX750M PSU
all in a roomy Fractal Design Meshify 2 compact case,
Running Windows 10
Viewed on ACER xv340ckp at a resolution of 3440*1440, 144Hz refresh.

The system runs perfectly except for beginning of any intensive gaming.
The whole system does not crash/BOD, only the game crashes.

It's fine on FIFA 21 max settings.

Cyberpunk 2077 with Low(or high!) settings, may start and is playable for a few minutes it then crashes when it goes to run a video sequence between scenes.
GTA V crashes, it crashed when it tried to run a benchmark.
Control on low settings crashes after a couple of minutes.
Most of the crashes reference a lack of memory and/or DX issues.

Before I was fortunate enough to acquire the 3070 founders edition I had an RX 6700 XT 12GB and it crashed on Cyberpunk, I assumed it was because of Cyberpunks bugs!
I have uninstalled the Geforce drivers and re-installed them.
Resizable BAR is enabled.
I changed the GPU bios express setting to Gen3 from auto.

I have ran various benchmarks, which tell me my system is very fast, benchmarks have not crashed.
Amongst the ones I've tried userbenchmark, 3dmark, nvidia free sync/g-sync checker

When running any test or usage there are no particular hot components AFAIK

All online advice assumes the whole system crashes, what does the fact my system stays running despite the game/program crashes mean?

What do I do next?

Tin Man

You could try under-volting the GPU a little bit in case its trying to pull in more power from the PSU than is available. When you are in windows the GPU is going to be in "2D" mode. When you start gaming the GPU switches to "3D" mode and all the bells and whistles get turned on.

If you have any overclocks enabled or special features turned on, get rid of them and test from stock settings.

Memory errors sound like RAM issues. You could try swapping out the RAM if you have any access to more compatible sticks. Even if you could borrow some from someone just for a test.

The nightmare scenario is the VRAM on the GPU being defective though. If that's the case you might need a replacement. If the issues only started after you swapped out the GPU as well, it doesn't bode well.

palong88

Before Undervolting ensure everything is updated, BIOS, Chipset, Windows. You'd be surprised that sometimes these can be quite old from shipping.

Do a custom Nividia install, this wipes the previous drivers from the machine.


Maybe reseat your ram or try a single stick at a time. Did you set up a dual channel? Ram needs to be dual channel for rysen, as in they have dedicated slots for each stick of ram.

Did you set the timing for your ram? XAMP/Docc profile? What is the recommended RAM speed?

Are you using any overclocking software? Like MSI afterburner?

Can you send a screenshot of the error and a screenshot of your memory usage from the task manager? Under the performance tab and select memory.

randomlad1337

Don't think the issue is PSU related, assuming OP has a fully functioning 750W PSU. I have the same CPU and GPU as OP but I have a 650W PSU instead all running stock, never had any issue with gaming.

BloodBath

You said you had an AMD card installed before. Might be remnants of the old drivers causing an issue.

Use this to completely remove old graphics drivers using the restart in safe mode option and try installing the latest drivers again.

https://www.guru3d.com/content-page/guru3d-driver-sweeper.html

TheValeyard

BloodBath wrote: »

You said you had an AMD card installed before. Might be remnants of the old drivers causing an issue.

Use this to completely remove old graphics drivers using the restart in safe mode option and try installing the latest drivers again.

https://www.guru3d.com/content-page/guru3d-driver-sweeper.html

I'd also wonder, did he recently switch from Win10 with an a Intel CPU before changing to AMD and not reinstall windows. That can cause all sorts of problems.


Source: my own stupidity

Tin Man

TheValeyard wrote: »

Source: my own stupidity

Take heart in the fact that most troubleshooting suggestions comes from the same source!

manshay

Tin Man

No overclocks

Swapping RAM sticks seems to be indicating a problem. If I placed one of the single sticks in the single stick slot as per MBR manual it might not post, swap for the other and it would post, swap again and it might work?

Doubt its the GPU as the AMD GPU had exactly the same issue.

palong88

All drivers and firmwares upto date.

Ram dual channelled in the appropriate slots.
Issue occurs whether XMP use or not
Not using MSI afterburner

Randomlad1337

I agree, the fact the windows system stays running suggests its not PSU, surely it would crash if the PSU had a wobble?

BloodBath

I hadn't ran DDU, I have now. Same error.

TheValeyard

You may have found the source of my pain. I have indeed not re-installed Windows, after moving from Intel. I was aware it could be the issue but I wanted to try everything/anything else first.

Before I go to the hassle of re-installing windows I'm going to buy some replacement ram that can be returned to Amazon.de.

Cordell

There are more things you can try:
- Hit the PSU and GPU with a high power load, like running Furmark
- reduce the GPU and VRAM frequencies
- reduce CPU and DRAM frequencies
- run a memory test https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/how-to-test-ram

It can be the PSU even if it's stable in Windows, the power load is much higher when gaming.

manshay

Cordell wrote: »

There are more things you can try:
- Hit the PSU and GPU with a high power load, like running Furmark
- reduce the GPU and VRAM frequencies
- reduce CPU and DRAM frequencies
- run a memory test https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/how-to-test-ram

It can be the PSU even if it's stable in Windows, the power load is much higher when gaming.

I'll try those.
My point about the PSU is that surely the whole system would crash (to BSOD) during gaming if it was at fault?

Cordell

I agree that is very unlikely to be the PSU but don't rule it out yet.

manshay

Cordell wrote: »

There are more things you can try:
- Hit the PSU and GPU with a high power load, like running Furmark
- reduce the GPU and VRAM frequencies
- reduce CPU and DRAM frequencies
- run a memory test https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/how-to-test-ram

It can be the PSU even if it's stable in Windows, the power load is much higher when gaming.

I ran Furmark, no problems,
I haven't had the time to learn how to change GPU or VRAM frequencies.
CPU and DRAM are running at stock,
Memory tests have shown no errors.

I ran GTA V and it crashed within 1 minute. Below is the event viewer warning message, excluding the XML.

Log Name: System
Source: Microsoft-Windows-Resource-Exhaustion-Detector
Date: 25/06/2021 10:54:41
Event ID: 2004
Task Category: Resource Exhaustion Diagnosis Events
Level: Warning
Keywords: Events related to exhaustion of system commit limit (virtual memory).
User: SYSTEM
Computer: XXXXHome-PC
Description:
Windows successfully diagnosed a low virtual memory condition. The following programs consumed the most virtual memory: GTA5.exe (28184) consumed 6291329024 bytes,(6.2GB) avp.exe (4092) consumed 449798144 (0.45GB) bytes, and Dropbox.exe (25140) consumed 296071168 bytes. (0.29GB)

Note the GB figures in brackets were entered by me, I used an online converter from bytes to GB. It seems the system is only using 8Gb. I have 16gb (2*8gb sticks)
I have attached a snip from task manager. It says available memory is 8GB?

Thanks for your ideas

Cordell

8 available + ~8 used = 16 no problem here.

The virtual memory one is weird. You can check if the paging file size is set manually or if it's too small. It should be around 2x your RAM size.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/how-to-manage-virtual-memory-pagefile-windows-10,36929.html
Normally it should be automatically managed but check its size there.

manshay

Cordell wrote: »

8 available + ~8 used = 16 no problem here.

The virtual memory one is weird. You can check if the paging file size is set manually or if it's too small. It should be around 2x your RAM size.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/how-to-manage-virtual-memory-pagefile-windows-10,36929.html
Normally it should be automatically managed but check its size there.

I've attached a screen grab of current virtual memory.

As I have 16Gb so do I put
Initial size 24000MB
Maximum size 64000MB

Thanks again!

manshay

I used
Initial size 24000MB
Maximum size 64000MB


AND IT ONLY BLOODY WORKED.

Thanks so much, I was planning to reinstall windows today, which I presume would've fixed this anyway.

Now to find some time to push this system!

Cordell

Cool then, happy days The original values were totally wrong, and it's recommended to put it back to automatically managed.

H3llR4iser

manshay wrote: »

I've attached a screen grab of current virtual memory.

As I have 16Gb so do I put
Initial size 24000MB
Maximum size 64000MB

Thanks again!

manshay wrote: »

I used
Initial size 24000MB
Maximum size 64000MB


AND IT ONLY BLOODY WORKED.

Thanks so much, I was planning to reinstall windows today, which I presume would've fixed this anyway.

Now to find some time to push this system!

Just put it to "System Managed Size" and forget about it - the OS is designed to make use of the pagefile and it doesn't work like most people believe.

The absolutely worst advice around Windows revolves around disabling and or tinkering with the pagefile - and it's not something new, you'd hear the classic "ah, you got 8MB of RAM, disable the Virtual Memory!" mantra from the "well informed guy" in PC shops 25+ years ago. For whatever reason, it looks like most random PC users believe Microsoft's engineers to be a bunch of idiots and that they know better.

Xenoronin

I'd still say reinstall windows after a swap from Intel to AMD. It's really not worth the risk of untimely crashes, especially when games and media can just be put on a different drive and moved back after the reinstall. A reinstall is nowhere near as annoying as it used to be.

Cordell

There is absolutely no need to.
My main PC went through an upgrade from Windows 8 to 10, one transition from AMD to Intel, another full rebuild (new CPU and MB) but still on Intel, 3 GPUs, transition from HDD to SSD and a SSD upgrade to a larger one, all these without reinstalling. All these and it's rock stable.

dreamers75

Cordell wrote: »

There is absolutely no need to.

Thats kinda wrong, when you install a new motherboard quite a lot of drivers are loaded to win32/driver section, why would you want any erroneous files in what is the base part of your windows install. Reinstalling helps troubleshooting also as any files not relevant but previously installed are wiped.

I formast/reinstall when I add a new CPU cooler :pac: It takes about 25 minutes with Windows 10.

Inviere

dreamers75 wrote: »

I formast/reinstall when I add a new CPU cooler :pac: It takes about 25 minutes with Windows 10.

I'm the same in that I'll only ever clean install for significant hardware changes. I've always been that way, since back when you kinda had to. The thoughts of a mobo swap without a clean install makes me itchy

Cordell

dreamers75 wrote: »

Thats kinda wrong, when you install a new motherboard quite a lot of drivers are loaded to win32/driver section, why would you want any erroneous files in what is the base part of your windows install. Reinstalling helps troubleshooting also as any files not relevant but previously installed are wiped.

I formast/reinstall when I add a new CPU cooler :pac: It takes about 25 minutes with Windows 10.

Actually
Reinstalling doesn't help troubleshooting. Troubleshooting means finding the root cause and fixing it. In this particular case here, with the wrong settings for the paging file size, reinstalling would have fixed the issue but not troubleshoot it - the root cause would have never been found.
There is no such thing as "erroneous files" left over. If they are not needed anymore, they will just sit there eating space but that's the extent of the trouble they will cause.

TheValeyard

Cordell wrote: »

There is absolutely no need to.
My main PC went through an upgrade from Windows 8 to 10, one transition from AMD to Intel, another full rebuild (new CPU and MB) but still on Intel, 3 GPUs, transition from HDD to SSD and a SSD upgrade to a larger one, all these without reinstalling. All these and it's rock stable.

Yeah, I've done that. Was a disaster. Reinstalling windows was definitely needed

Homelander

My last few changes I've actually just done the same, transferred over the 2TB nvme and let Windows install the correct drivers and DDU the display drivers and reinstall. Never once had an issue either.

Last swap was AMD to Intel as well. I'm not saying it's best practice but in almost every case it does work perfectly for us lazy folk that don't want to have to start fresh.

Skerries

yeah but it would be like putting on someone else's dirty clothes instead of fresh ones
You may be clothed with no issues but you're still going to feel dirty

Xenoronin

Also, **** like changing the virtual memory size is clearly indicating a problem. If your system is paging excessively (using hard drive space as RAM) with 16GB of RAM, something super weird is going on. It could be pure chance, but his system was using exactly 8GB of RAM too... If it's not moving above that number, again, ****s ****ed. If everything works fine for you guys that's fine, but this guy has had issues that should really prompt a reinstall.