Concerns with Phthalates and Bisphenols in Food

Hint of Sarcasm

When it comes to plastic, the main hormone disruptors are phthalates and bisphenols. I recently learned that it's the phthalates that make the plastic flexible, and the bisphenols that make it hard. Food is of course the main source of how plastic particles enter our bodies due to their processing, storage and/or cooking. Cosmetics is another source, as phthalates increase absorption into the skin and they increase the retention of scent & colour for makeup & fragrances, etc.

You'll see a lot of articles on the internet about how plastics are bad for you, but it's very hard to get specific facts. What I want to know is questions like these:

• What exact type of plastics go into making your typical plastic kettle? Is it just one type of bisphenol that is used, or is it a mixture of bisphenols? And why is BPA the most common one I hear of?
  
• Is it possible to measure phthalates and bisphenols in water?
  
• Once boiled, what level of these compounds is found in the water, when compared to the level of these compounds that would be found in the water if boiling had not take place?
  
• How much more of these plastic compounds are measured when comparing water that was boiled and immediately taken out Vs water that was left at boil for several hours?
  
• Can I assume that (in a plastic container) with food like yoghurt, you'd have less of these compounds in it than with a proper liquid, like say coke, seeing as the yoghurt at the edge of the container will pretty much remain trapped in place? Know what I mean?

I know common sense might help you take a guess at what the answers to these questions are, but I'd like to see an actual study on it, with figures. That way I could form a proper opinion about it. At the moment, my opinion is to err on the safe side and, with in reason, avoid as much as possible.

I don't necessarily mind eating food that's been in contact with plastic, but what I am particularly conscious of is heated food in contact with plastic. The other day my auntie brought over one of those roast chickens that they sell in plastic bags in deli counters. It made things very awkward for me because I didn't want to be rude. To think of that chicken sitting there under the hot lights in the deli all day, with the phthalates leaching into it; no thanks! I feel the same way about people who microwave things in plastic, or cook things in tinfoil.

Another thing is drinking the tea and coffee in the work canteen. I've a proper kettle at home, but if the water for the tea that comes out of those hot water dispenser things, is kept boiled! Now I'm not sure if these are stainless steal containers, or plastic ones. Often you don't even get to see. You don't get to see the inside of it, and even if it's metal you don't know what they line the surfaces of these things with. I recently happened to take a proper look at our coffee machine at home, and it's a plastic storage area in the back of it that holds the boiling water! There's also billions of micro/nanoplastics shed from tea bags when they're steeped.

The other issue is because this isn't something that people have been socially conditioned into thinking is unhealthy, it means that people will look at you like you've two heads if you were to talk about it. Now I understand why people might think you're daft if you believed that microwaved food is dangerous, or something like that; but this is different. Some of my colleagues at work even noticed that I haven't been drinking tea or coffee lately. I just sort of fudged this when it was brought up, because I wouldn't be telling them the reason for it.

When it comes to phthalates and bisphenols being considered a risk, there's this idea that the dose makes the poison. So scientists might do a test at very high doses, and then keep dropping the dose until they don't see any effect in the animal being used, & then they'll assume that anything lower than that level is safe! But if we're continually subjected to lose doses of a whole variety of harmful chemicals every day, then what does that mean? Even though we're almost certain this is the reason male sperm counts fallen 50-60 % over the last 50 years, it's seldom spoken about. What's also happening nowadays with new-born males, is that the anogenital distance is shortening. And this all correlates with the rodent studies using phthalates in food.

What are your thoughts on this? Of course, the less processed foods you eat, the lower your exposure will be. As it happens, eating less processed food is the right way to go anyway, regardless of plastic. I've worked in a cheese factory and a deli counter myself, and it has opened my mind a bit more to this.

dashoonage

i find if you drink enough whiskey it will kill everything anyway.

The Mighty Quinn

Hint of Sarcasm wrote: »

Honestly? While you may have some valid points there about plastics leeching into food, it sounds like you have become a little obsessive about it.

I don't want to be one of those looking at you like you've two heads, but if you avoid processed food where possible and cook fresh stuff, then they're probably going to assist with good health. There must be diminishing returns on the 'harm' you're avoiding by going full on crazy over it and avoiding anything that passed a sheet of plastic or tinfoil.

Hint of Sarcasm

The Mighty Quinn wrote: »

Honestly? While you may have some valid points there about plastics leeching into food, it sounds like you have become a little obsessive about it.

I doubt I made any valid points really... hence the lack of likes. But I am surprised that there have not been any threads on boards that discuss the fall in male sperm count over the last few decades.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

The majority of items you’ll find in contact with food in Europe are very, very highly regulated. Some of the discussion online tends to apply to products you won’t encounter here.

What you should avoid is buying cheap plastic food containers or devices from unknown / dubious sources etc and don’t use very old containers or plastic food blenders etc from the 1970s & 80s that might be hanging around from the days when these issues were less understood.

The Mighty Quinn

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

The majority of items you’ll find in contact with food in Europe are very, very highly regulated. Some of the discussion online tends to apply to products you won’t encounter here.

What you should avoid is buying cheap plastic food containers or devices from unknown / dubious sources etc and don’t use very old containers or plastic food blenders etc from the 1970s & 80s that might be hanging around from the days when these issues were less understood.

We'd often reuse containers from Chinese takeaway in our house, probably not the best idea!

Mimon

Maybe I'm too cautious but will never heat food in plastic in a microwave. Even if it a pain i will put it into a ceramic bowl.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

The Mighty Quinn wrote: »

We'd often reuse containers from Chinese takeaway in our house, probably not the best idea!

Probably fine. Just check what’s stamped on them

Hint of Sarcasm

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

Probably fine. Just check what’s stamped on them

Yeah, but what's worst is what happens when you buy the actual Chinese. My sister came home with one of those containers last night. I put my hand on the outside of it to confirm what I suspected... heat! When you buy those things it's hot and in the plastic!

Hint of Sarcasm

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

don’t use very old plastic food blenders etc from the 1970s & 80s.

Well actually my thinking is that an old blender mightn't be so bad. Because, number 1, there's no heat involved, and 2, your food is only in it for a short period of time.

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

...the days when these issues were less understood.

They're still not understood really. They just move on to new compounds instead, and then lay the burden of proof off to the public for the next decade or so... like with BPS and TPP replacing BPA. And yes, these are also endocrine disruptors.

Brid Hegarty

@ClosedAccountFuzzy The majority of items you’ll find in contact with food in Europe are very, very highly regulated. Some of the discussion online tends to apply to products you won’t encounter here.

We are regulated better than in the U.S. Most food regulations are based around making sure there's no harmful bacteria present. As regards the long term insidious health effects from something like BPA? I'm not so sure about that?