Consumer rights advice

adamcullen8

This is a very brief summary of my situation.
I contacted Medion last September asking if my laptop BIOS had an update as I was told by Microsoft that it did but I needed Medion to give me the update before I could update Windows. The updates Medion sent me which was "confirmed by the software team" broke my laptop as they weren't compatible with the BIOS so my laptop didn't turn back on, Medion said it had to be sent to them to be fixed but it wasn't picked up on the day.
I was then told my laptop was old and they didn't have parts for it. After that and the rude interactions I had with them I sent a formal complaint to the company in November.
I got a reply in December wanting to collect my laptop again, over weeks and months of consent failures it finally got collected in February.
A few weeks later I was called informing me that they attempted to fix it but fryed the motherboard instead and they were going to send me "a good will gesture".
When I got the email with the information about the notepad I replied if that was the only option and if my original laptop would be returned to me, I was told it would be "destroyed".
When the "gesture of good will" arrived I took pictures of the package as the box is dirty and wasn't sealed at all, the notepad was fully charged(there's a page saying it should be empty for transit and you need to charge it) also it was updated the day it was sent showing it was an old left over they wanted to get rid of as it is inferior to my old laptop as it has Windows 10 s meaning it can only be used to look on edge and that's it and known Medion it wouldn't be able to handle full version of Windows.
To get back to where I was just a year ago is now going to cost a lot to either buy a new laptop or buy a Windows 10 key and possibly have to make the notepad compatible, if my laptop wasn't destroyed it might have been cheaper to get someone to actually fix it.
That was my interaction with Medion and I didn't get compensation as the "good will gesture" is separate to compensation firstly as compensation is for breaking my laptop then destroying it and gesture of good will is for the months of waiting and putting up with their rudeness and incompetence while being nice the whole time. Secondly the notebook is inferior, second hand "old" (to their standards as they have no support on their website) and I had no option of redress or of replacement.
I submitted a complaint on econsumer.gov no reply yet, The European consumer commission Ireland(ECC) said that my contract is with D.I.D so it would be hard to argue with Medion, For over the past two months I tried contacting claims.ie multiple times but I haven't got a reply at all.
Thank you for reading my post and the advice and if you are a legal advisor and want more/clearer information then please don't hesitate to contact me.

L1011

You can convert 10S to 10 via the Windows Store for free.

Your consumer rights were always with DID and it would be exceptionally hard to raise a complaint with them at this stage. The device was outside the EU mandated manufacturers warranty period by some time.

Econsumer.gov is US only. Claims.ie are solicitors, this case has no value worth a solicitor pursuing.

You need to put paragraphs in this if you want people to be able to figure out what your complaint is

adamcullen8

L1011 wrote: »

You can convert 10S to 10 via the Windows Store for free.

Your consumer rights were always with DID and it would be exceptionally hard to raise a complaint with them at this stage. The device was outside the EU mandated manufacturers warranty period by some time.

Econsumer.gov is US only. Claims.ie are solicitors, this case has no value worth a solicitor pursuing.

You need to put paragraphs in this if you want people to be able to figure out what your complaint is

Is the "free" upgrade like the "free" upgrade from Windows 7 to 10 now where is basically a trial until you buy a key to activate it so technically its free but that's just the install not activation?

3102derek

You can also get full Win 10 pro key from ebay for a less that €5.
Been doing it for years.

L1011

No, and anyway Win7 can still be upgraded to 10 if you have a EFI activated licence, which most modern computers do. Its just not publicised.

Flinty997

3102derek wrote: »

You can also get full Win 10 pro key from ebay for a less that €5.
Been doing it for years.

He's doesn't need pro he can switch S to home for free.

Flinty997

Exactly when was this laptop bought.

L1011

Flinty997 wrote: »

Exactly when was this laptop bought.

As far as I can tell, 2016 - from a longer version of this post.

adamcullen8

Flinty997 wrote: »

Exactly when was this laptop bought.

It wasn't "bought" as it was given to me as "gesture of good will" but they don't list it on their website and it was from Aldi (it says Aldi on the book) so my guess could be around 2016 like L1011 said which was around my original laptop was made and they said they didn't have parts for that so it doesn't have a warranty and if something similar happens again I'll be told the same thing basically not our problem we broke your laptop go third party.

L1011

I think they were asking about when you bought the original laptop

Medion supply Aldi quite extensively. Warranties are not renewed/extended on a replacement item generally, nor are consumer rights.

The easiest thing to do here is just do the S->Home conversion and leave it.

adamcullen8

L1011 wrote: »

You can convert 10S to 10 via the Windows Store for free.

Your consumer rights were always with DID and it would be exceptionally hard to raise a complaint with them at this stage. The device was outside the EU mandated manufacturers warranty period by some time.

Econsumer.gov is US only. Claims.ie are solicitors, this case has no value worth a solicitor pursuing.

You need to put paragraphs in this if you want people to be able to figure out what your complaint is

Would the contract with DID not extend to the manufacturer as well in some context as otherwise there's a big loop hole for manufacturers deliberately breaking peoples goods just because the contract is with a retailer instead, In that case couldn't the retailer sue the manufacturer as the retailers have a similar style contract with the manufacturer for providing repair service to faulty goods(only one part of contract)?

L1011

No, your sale contract is with DID, nobody else.

Manufacturers don't deliberately break things either

adamcullen8

L1011 wrote: »

I think they were asking about when you bought the original laptop

Medion supply Aldi quite extensively. Warranties are not renewed/extended on a replacement item generally, nor are consumer rights.

The easiest thing to do here is just do the S->Home conversion and leave it.

The original laptop was gotten January 2016 and I think made end 2015

adamcullen8

L1011 wrote: »

No, your sale contract is with DID, nobody else.

Manufacturers don't deliberately break things either

Their extreme incompetence would make you think otherwise as if the whole software team provided incompatible updates then when they go to fix it completely destroy it, I know they didn't deliberately break it but their incompetence and rudeness the whole time was a bit concerning as well when I searched about reviews of their service afterwards, there are sections on Medion and Lenovo(the parent company) websites where others have similar stories of incompetence long time to even collect and some had been promised checks(they had very expensive gaming laptops) and never got a cent. Even Lenovo has a controversy section on their wiki.

Xterminator

that's fair enough, they have obviously made a poor impression on you with their customer service & ability.

Your post asked about

Consumer rights advice

. Good customer service and consumer rights are different things.

You have no realistic comeback under the sale of goods and supply act.

You could still make (another?) official complaint about the quality and professionalism of their customer service, laying out how you feel their service has fallen short of your expectations.

Flinty997

adamcullen8 wrote: »

Their extreme incompetence would make you think otherwise as if the whole software team provided incompatible updates then when they go to fix it completely destroy it, I know they didn't deliberately break it but their incompetence and rudeness the whole time was a bit concerning as well when I searched about reviews of their service afterwards, there are sections on Medion and Lenovo(the parent company) websites where others have similar stories of incompetence long time to even collect and some had been promised checks(they had very expensive gaming laptops) and never got a cent. Even Lenovo has a controversy section on their wiki.

No manufacturer is perfect. Every model is different. You should concentrate on your own case only.

This is cheap low cost laptop. It's basically just one circuit board. There is very little that can be fixed. So usually they just replace them if there's an issue.

A 5-6yr laptop of this spec is effectively worth nothing.

Generally the warranty on these do not have limit on how long a repair can take. Which is a weakness in consumer legislation. (I'm open to correction). Your warranty is still from the date of purchase even if there's been replacement laptops in-between.

adamcullen8

Flinty997 wrote: »

No manufacturer is perfect. Every model is different. You should concentrate on your own case only.

This is cheap low cost laptop. It's basically just one circuit board. There is very little that can be fixed. So usually they just replace them if there's an issue.

A 5-6yr laptop of this spec is effectively worth nothing.

Generally the warranty on these do not have limit on how long a repair can take. Which is a weakness in consumer legislation. (I'm open to correction). Your warranty is still from the date of purchase even if there's been replacement laptops in-between.

My old laptop didn't loose much value (I know because in the end I had to print the customs papers as well which said the value was around €170 and it originally cost just over€200 or something) so I should at least get compensation for the amount on the value from customs for the laptop apart from the fact that everything(files, photos, documents ect) I had on it is now gone

whippet

adamcullen8 wrote: »

My old laptop didn't loose much value (I know because in the end I had to print the customs papers as well which said the value was around €170 and it originally cost just over€200 or something) so I should at least get compensation for the amount on the value from customs

no

Flinty997

They would reduce the value based on the number of years you had use of it. It's value is practically zero.

You could open a case with the small claims court against DID if you are unhappy. But I reckon it's waste of time.

cruizer101

adamcullen8 wrote: »

My old laptop didn't loose much value (I know because in the end I had to print the customs papers as well which said the value was around €170 and it originally cost just over€200 or something) so I should at least get compensation for the amount on the value from customs for the laptop apart from the fact that everything(files, photos, documents ect) I had on it is now gone

Who said the value is 170? There is no way a 4year old laptop has only lost around 15% of its value.
If I had a brand new laptop that I decided I didn't want after a week I would be surprised if it hadn't lost more than 15% of its value never mind a 4 year old one.

The data being lost is annoying but anything of value should be backed up. I know people don't, I'm quite guilty of it myself, but there is no one to blame for data loss other than yourself. Data stored in one location could be lost at any time.

adamcullen8

cruizer101 wrote: »

Who said the value is 170? There is no way a 4year old laptop has only lost around 15% of its value.
If I had a brand new laptop that I decided I didn't want after a week I would be surprised if it hadn't lost more than 15% of its value never mind a 4 year old one.

The data being lost is annoying but anything of value should be backed up. I know people don't, I'm quite guilty of it myself, but there is no one to blame for data loss other than yourself. Data stored in one location could be lost at any time.

The documents for customs said contents and worth around €170

whippet

adamcullen8 wrote: »

The documents for customs said contents and worth around €170

if you were to sell a 6 year old €220 laptop on the open market what would you expect to pay for it ?

Would you pay €170 for it ?

The small claims court will discount the value of the product based on how old it is - how long it is in to it's expected life etc .

Get that value out of your head

mondeoman72

I fear you have an unrealistic value attached to your laptop.
If it is 6 years old, and cost even 300 euro, it is now a proverbial dinosaur. Of course, it is yours, and nobody has the right to take it away from you, but really, it is not worth anywhere remotely near 170. I would say less than 100 euro

adamcullen8

whippet wrote: »

if you were to sell a 6 year old €220 laptop on the open market what would you expect to pay for it ?

Would you pay €170 for it ?

The small claims court will discount the value of the product based on how old it is - how long it is in to it's expected life etc .

Get that value out of your head

Nobody is talking about selling it as the "value" of something isn't considered by how much it will sell for but more how much parts and stuff is worth(like new in box not the second or third hand selling online) , for example when you get insurance on your car you don't go to ebay for the value no matter how old or new as value always changes and you mostly don't know how many hands it changed which lowers the price more and every product online is in different conditions which is why nobody uses amazon, ebay ect to calculate "value" so I would trust manufacturer/customs calculation of the true value of the first hand in original undamaged box than the 2 key missing 2nd hand ebay listing

I found it on ebay selling higher that the value in customs
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114770462391

berocca2016

adamcullen8 wrote: »

Nobody is talking about selling it as the "value" of something isn't considered by how much it will sell for but more how much parts and stuff is worth(like new in box not the second or third hand selling online) , for example when you get insurance on your car you don't go to ebay for the value no matter how old or new as value always changes and you mostly don't know how many hands it changed which lowers the price more and every product online is in different conditions which is why nobody uses amazon, ebay ect to calculate "value" so I would trust manufacturer/customs calculation of the true value of the first hand in original undamaged box than the 2 key missing 2nd hand ebay listing

To summate, you had a 5 year old laptop. A software update fecked it up. You reported this to the manufacturer, they accidentally fried your laptop then sent you out a new one?

Id be happy with the new one. A five year old laptop is worth 0 euro, you should be valuing it at its net realisable value which is scrap. You got a free laptop that works! Sounds like you got a good deal tbh.

whippet

adamcullen8 wrote: »

Nobody is talking about selling it as the "value" of something isn't considered by how much it will sell for but more how much parts and stuff is worth(like new in box not the second or third hand selling online) , for example when you get insurance on your car you don't go to ebay for the value no matter how old or new as value always changes and you mostly don't know how many hands it changed which lowers the price more and every product online is in different conditions which is why nobody uses amazon, ebay ect to calculate "value" so I would trust manufacturer/customs calculation of the true value of the first hand in original undamaged box than the 2 key missing 2nd hand ebay listing

That is incorrect

whippet

adamcullen8 wrote: »

I found it on ebay selling higher that the value in customs
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114770462391

You’d want to have rocks in your head to pay that amount for that laptop

It is generally accepted that entry level laptops have a 5 year life span max.

adamcullen8

berocca2016 wrote: »

To summate, you had a 5 year old laptop. A software update fecked it up. You reported this to the manufacturer, they accidentally fried your laptop then sent you out a new one?

Id be happy with the new one. A five year old laptop is worth 0 euro, you should be valuing it at its net realisable value which is scrap. You got a free laptop that works! Sounds like you got a good deal tbh.

The new one is as old if not second had(nothing was sealed or even closed properly) and worth less than the one that got destroyed also it took for a formal complaint for them to do anything which took months and they never admitted or were sorry that they did anything wrong or that they destroyed my laptop and if I had a choice I would of got away from the company completely now I'm either stuck with them or out of pocket

fritzelly

I don't know why you expected them to send you a brand new laptop in replacement for a 5 year old broken laptop

Installing a new bios is always dangerous and the culpability lay solely in your hands

That you sent the laptop without having a backup of the data is solely your own fault

You should be grateful that they sent you a replacement laptop at all

adamcullen8

fritzelly wrote: »

I don't know why you expected them to send you a brand new laptop in replacement for a 5 year old broken laptop

Installing a new bios is always dangerous and the culpability lay solely in your hands

That you sent the laptop without having a backup of the data is solely your own fault

You should be grateful that they sent you a replacement laptop at all

MEDION BROKE THE LAPTOP, they are responsible for the laptop being broken as it was fine before they sent faulty incompatible updates, I didn't know they would break my laptop so I couldn't back it up in preparation of it breaking, I should be able to trust the manufacturer that they know how their own products work and how to maintain them

fritzelly

adamcullen8 wrote: »

MEDION BROKE THE LAPTOP, they are responsible for the laptop being broken as it was fine before they sent faulty incompatible updates, I didn't know they would break my laptop so I couldn't back it up in preparation of it breaking, I should be able to trust the manufacturer that they know how their own products work and how to maintain them

Even with a perfect bios update you can still screw it up and brick it, you don't know if the bios update was faulty - so that point is mute
Plus the HDD can still be backed up with another device

You sent them a broken laptop, in trying to fix it they "fried" the motherboard - they really had no onus to help you or recompense you

berocca2016

adamcullen8 wrote: »

The new one is as old if not second had(nothing was sealed or even closed properly) and worth less than the one that got destroyed also it took for a formal complaint for them to do anything which took months and they never admitted or were sorry that they did anything wrong or that they destroyed my laptop and if I had a choice I would of got away from the company completely now I'm either stuck with them or out of pocket

I think you need to remember the below:

1) Medion owe you no duty of care under Irish consumer law as your contract of sale was with DID.
2) Medion owe you no duty of care under Irish consumer law as the laptop is firstly outside the manufacturers warranty and secondly outside the expected useful life of a cheap laptop.
3) They offered you a free laptop despite not having a duty of care, this is a good will gesture.

I really don't see why you're annoyed, you didn't back up an old laptop. This is not their fault. What exactly do you expect then to do ?

whippet

adamcullen8 wrote: »

MEDION BROKE THE LAPTOP, they are responsible for the laptop being broken as it was fine before they sent faulty incompatible updates, I didn't know they would break my laptop so I couldn't back it up in preparation of it breaking, I should be able to trust the manufacturer that they know how their own products work and how to maintain them

And they have replaced it with a similar machine.

Also - your data is your data - your responsibility.

A laptop or hard drive can die at any minute so if this is your only copy of the data the problem is yours