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The Green Travel cert, questions..

  • #2
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭ Jake1


    I have some questions regarding this Cert /Documentation..for travel, that will show I am fully vaccinated.
    Im hoping to travel to Europe, Canada and North America in next couple of months

    When and where do I apply for the cert,
    also, will the same cert do for Europe and Can/NorthAmerica? I ask this, because when I google Green travel cert, it seems to say its for Europe, its called the EU Digital Covid Cert. I need one for travel NA?CA also.

    Im so confused.

    Thanks for any clarification.


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Comments

  • #2


    There's no information available now as it's over a month to do until it's in operation. Bear in mind that HSE IT have been dealing with the Cyber attack so they'll be stretched to make the 19th.

    At the moment you still can't travel to the US from Ireland with very few exceptions so that's not something to stress about. Check Canadian government websites for information about their policies.


  • #2


    Caranica wrote: »
    There's no information available now as it's over a month to do until it's in operation. Bear in mind that HSE IT have been dealing with the Cyber attack so they'll be stretched to make the 19th.

    At the moment you still can't travel to the US from Ireland with very few exceptions so that's not something to stress about. Check Canadian government websites for information about their policies.

    Already the scaremongering has started Re July 19th travel. Ossian Smyth it is this time that has been wheeled out to put the dampeners on travel. Once they delay it into August sure then all bets are off and it will be 'our priority is to get the schools back,, blah blah blah....'


  • #2


    I don't think that cert will be covering outside the EU.


  • #2


    I am due to get my second pfizer dose either next week or the week after. I will wait until fully vaccinated + 2 weeks before booking anywhere, although I have no inclination to travel until after the equinox.

    What I really want to know is what will be the situation for outside-EU travel to open countries such as Thailand or Brazil? A few weeks ago fully vaccinated travellers from the USA were exempt from Mandatory Hotel Quarantine, then shortly thereafter the MHQ requirement for the United States was lifted.

    Could a fully vaxxed Irish citizen with the Digital Cert travel to a redlist country eg. UAE (Dubai) and then return without MHQ?


  • #2


    there seem to be a lack of threads dealing with the upcoming irish version of the EU digital Covid Certificate a.k.a. the Green Cert.
    Stephen Donnelly said yesterday that it would go 'live' on july 19 whatever that means.
    fr that date it is supposed to be possible f travellers w an EU green cert to travel to and from Ireland.
    Very little has been said about it other than stating they are making progress putting the IT together to issue the digital proof of vaccination.
    I have skin in the game having booked a flight on july 21 so i am anxious.
    I guess the next 2 1/2 week will tell but it would be nice to know before hand.
    Any other insights or tips? Any other threads discussing this topic?


  • #2


    Caranica wrote: »
    There's no information available now as it's over a month to do until it's in operation. Bear in mind that HSE IT have been dealing with the Cyber attack so they'll be stretched to make the 19th.

    Yes, they have been using the HSE hack as an excuse.
    Funny, because i remember an official being asked about this at the time the EU announced the plan in early june to be officially starting on july1 and if the hack would interfere with that.
    The irish official said no because the system was set up outside of the HSE.
    I have a sneaking suspicion it might be used to further delay the july 19 date as a starting point, blaming it on problems because of the HSE hack.
    A useful tool?


  • #2


    Ballynally wrote: »
    Yes, they have been using the HSE hack as an excuse.
    Funny, because i remember an official being asked about this at the time the EU announced the plan in early june to be officially starting on july1 and if the hack would interfere with that.
    The irish official said no because the system was set up outside of the HSE.
    I have a sneaking suspicion it might be used to further delay the july 19 date as a starting point, blaming it on problems because of the HSE hack.
    A useful tool?

    Why can people not understand, the hack did not affect the data but it pulled the manpower!! Every IT person in the HSE and seconded from elsewhere was pulled off what they were doing (unless it was absolutely essential) and put to work on sorting out the hack. Not a tool, a simple fact. They were working ultra long hours too, and no weekends off. This has knock on effects on all the other projects they were working on.


  • #2


    Don't worry so much about the green cert, as till september, the paper cards that is given after vaccination will be accepted among the EU. The problem is right now, if you travel somewhere and return to Ireland, you need to have negative covid test (90E) + you need to do home quarantine for 14 days, you can have test at 5th day for free then you can leave earlier but there is no exemption or exception for fully vaccinated people.


  • #2


    bonjurkes wrote: »
    Don't worry so much about the green cert, as till september, the paper cards that is given after vaccination will be accepted among the EU. The problem is right now, if you travel somewhere and return to Ireland, you need to have negative covid test (90E) + you need to do home quarantine for 14 days, you can have test at 5th day for free then you can leave earlier but there is no exemption or exception for fully vaccinated people.

    How do you know the paper card will be accepted, either by irish or other EU airport officials?
    And yes, we know about the quarentine rules atm but, if they dont push july 19 backwards, that will end then, except for 'red' high risk countries.
    That is 2 1/2 weeks away.
    Caveat, i dont know about the non EU situation. Subject to change i suppose.


  • #2


    Caranica wrote: »
    This has knock on effects on all the other projects they were working on.

    But i think the EU covid cert project for ireland has been outsourced to a private company unaffected by the hack.
    The vaccination program itself is also set up largely outside of the HSE, at least the system running it.
    The problems are mostly at the reporting side on the HSE website, as far as i know. It is likely the company running the vaccination system does the administration side as well. How much that affects the EU Covid Cert tech issues is anyone's guess.
    It is still a possibility it will create some alignment issues w the HSE as bottleneck in the 2 1/2 weeks before the official Cert to go 'live'.
    I hope not.


  • #2


    Ballynally wrote: »
    How do you know the paper card will be accepted, either by irish or other EU airport officials?
    And yes, we know about the quarentine rules atm but, if they dont push july 19 backwards, that will end then, except for 'red' high risk countries.
    That is 2 1/2 weeks away.
    Caveat, i dont know about the non EU situation. Subject to change i suppose.

    Check timeline here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/safe-covid-19-vaccines-europeans/eu-digital-covid-certificate_en#timeline

    It says up to August 12, It was September before sorry about confusion. It used to show Ireland has not implemented the system before also but now it shows green so should be fine.


  • #2


    bonjurkes wrote: »
    Check timeline here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/safe-covid-19-vaccines-europeans/eu-digital-covid-certificate_en#timeline

    It says up to August 12, It was September before sorry about confusion. It used to show Ireland has not implemented the system before also but now it shows green so should be fine.

    Thanks. There was also an article on NT w an official stating a paper form of vaccination status would be accepted fr july19 in case the DCC would not be in place , which i suppose is the cardboard given by the vaccination centre after the jab.
    The official was reacting to M o' Leary statements made earlier.

    Edit: august 12 is 6 weeks after july1, the end of implementation.


  • #2


    It's important to remember that the legislation which provides for travelling abroad only for essential reasons actually expires on Monday 5th July. From this date, there is no more legal restriction on travelling abroad. The essential reason disappears.

    https://assets.gov.ie/134499/bb2a7e1a-4170-446d-b09d-9c024dff8d0c.pdf


  • #2


    What's the procedure to get this green certificate for unvaccinated?
    Just download the app when it comes out?
    Thanks


  • #2


    Yes, exactly and follow the instructions for what you can use to upload in lieu of a vaccine. But you don't need the app, you can get a print out as an alternative.


  • #2


    It's important to remember that the legislation which provides for travelling abroad only for essential reasons actually expires on Monday 5th July. From this date, there is no more legal restriction on travelling abroad. The essential reason disappears.

    https://assets.gov.ie/134499/bb2a7e1a-4170-446d-b09d-9c024dff8d0c.pdf

    But you still need proof of either vaccinations, having had Covid19 and recovered or PCR test result.
    EU dig Cert scanners are not in operation in Dublin airport yet.
    Some visitors fr EU w their dig Cert could not be scanned on July 2. Fully vaxxed, certified but couldnt enter.and of course they didnt have paper proof or PCR test as they thought they didnt need it w their Dig Cert.
    If Ireland is not ready w their DCC on july19 i could probably leave Dublin but might have trouble getting into other countries w just the piece of card board.
    They want to scan a QR code which we dont have yet, while we dont have the scanners for theirs.nice.


  • #2


    Yes, exactly and follow the instructions for what you can use to upload in lieu of a vaccine. But you don't need the app, you can get a print out as an alternative.

    You cannot follow any instructions or print anything off atm.
    There is no site to go to to do any of this.
    Supposed to go digital on july19.
    Supposed.mmmm.that date is getting closer.
    I half expect some tech issue to arrive between now and then.


  • #2


    Ballynally wrote: »
    But you still need proof of either vaccinations, having had Covid19 and recovered or PCR test result.

    I spent the last hour or so looking at the Green Pass specification documents as they're public. It's just a bit of JSON with your name and dob and what your status is. That's sha256 signed, compressed and converted into a QR code. It's a bit waffly but then EU stuff usually is.

    To verify, you take the QR code (there are free libraries, it's a doddle on a phone now), retrieve the data, get the public key and validate the content. Easy. If you've ever checked the validity of a Windows executable by checking its signature, it's the same process.

    In my (experienced) opinion, it would take an experienced person a few days to set up a QR scanner to validate the certs. I say that because there is code and libraries already on github to do it! And it'd take a few days to get a QR scanner from Amazon (starting at 70 quid).

    So why hasn't it been done? No idea. You are validating a data blob. It's not dependent on a HSE database. The only dependency is the certificate chain from the EU root cert but jesus, that's nothing.

    If you were sufficiently disinterested in writing code, there's Python code done already. If you weren't arsed in doing any of it, you could ring up another country and ask them to send you theirs.

    It's a joke.
    You cannot follow any instructions or print anything off atm.
    There is no site to go to to do any of this.
    Supposed to go digital on july19.

    The other way around - generating the green cert - involves an entity with access to the certificate private key who can sign the cert. This *could* have been done by trusting the vaccinator to submit a properly formatted JSON file to a server that would sign it on the spot and send back the result. Instant QR code. Done. Cheerio, get on a plane. Bye...

    My brother in law got his jab (one shot Jansen) and QR code simultaneously in Romania. Romania for godsake!

    But nooooo. I remember some poor woman in the doctor's surgery taking all the information each person gave her and typing that into an Excel spreadsheet. I suppose that was uploaded somewhere at some point to some data centre that had the ransomware event to deal with.

    So maybe the way it's being done is to collate all these masses of vaccination data, cross reference that against the PPS numbers to get the name/sirname used in your passport (if they don't match, it would be irritating) and then... what.... magic I suppose. Post out a QR code. Dick about with mygov.ie. Who the hell knows. I certainly don't.


  • #2


    carveone wrote: »
    I spent the last hour or so looking at the Green Pass specification documents as they're public. It's just a bit of JSON with your name and dob and what your status is. That's sha256 signed, compressed and converted into a QR code. It's a bit waffly but then EU stuff usually is.

    To verify, you take the QR code (there are free libraries, it's a doddle on a phone now), retrieve the data, get the public key and validate the content. Easy. If you've ever checked the validity of a Windows executable by checking its signature, it's the same process.

    In my (experienced) opinion, it would take an experienced person a few days to set up a QR scanner to validate the certs. I say that because there is code and libraries already on github to do it! And it'd take a few days to get a QR scanner from Amazon (starting at 70 quid).

    So why hasn't it been done? No idea. You are validating a data blob. It's not dependent on a HSE database. The only dependency is the certificate chain from the EU root cert but jesus, that's nothing.

    If you were sufficiently disinterested in writing code, there's Python code done already. If you weren't arsed in doing any of it, you could ring up another country and ask them to send you theirs.

    It's a joke.



    The other way around - generating the green cert - involves an entity with access to the certificate private key who can sign the cert. This *could* have been done by trusting the vaccinator to submit a properly formatted JSON file to a server that would sign it on the spot and send back the result. Instant QR code. Done. Cheerio, get on a plane. Bye...

    My brother in law got his jab (one shot Jansen) and QR code simultaneously in Romania. Romania for godsake!

    But nooooo. I remember some poor woman in the doctor's surgery taking all the information each person gave her and typing that into an Excel spreadsheet. I suppose that was uploaded somewhere at some point to some data centre that had the ransomware event to deal with.

    So maybe the way it's being done is to collate all these masses of vaccination data, cross reference that against the PPS numbers to get the name/sirname used in your passport (if they don't match, it would be irritating) and then... what.... magic I suppose. Post out a QR code. Dick about with mygov.ie. Who the hell knows. I certainly don't.

    thanks for the info. It was pretty clear from the start that the IT needed for individual countries was preambuled by open source tech to make implementation easy.
    Yesterday, the tech company involved in the DCC for Ireland said that july19 was an 'optimistic' date. How the hell is that possible?
    Paul Reed, ceo of the HSE said they were ready to roll out the vaccination data for july19 today. There are SO many conflicting messages. It is either incompetence or deliberate negligence. Or worse.
    Maybe Romenia can set it up for us and send it our way w the extra jabs.


  • #2


    The latest from the government.
    I take it it wont contain a QR code.

    "A letter will shortly be issued to fully vaccinated people ahead of the return of non-essential travel from 19 July, so they can avail of the EU Digital Covid Certificate."


  • #2


    It's important to remember that the legislation which provides for travelling abroad only for essential reasons actually expires on Monday 5th July. From this date, there is no more legal restriction on travelling abroad. The essential reason disappears.

    https://assets.gov.ie/134499/bb2a7e1a-4170-446d-b09d-9c024dff8d0c.pdf

    Extended today until the 19th! Hope anyone traveling does their own research and doesn't reply on something someone posted on Boards.


  • #2


    Caranica wrote: »
    Extended today until the 19th! Hope anyone traveling does their own research and doesn't reply on something someone posted on Boards.

    Or a loose statement by an official on Twitter..


  • #2


    Ballynally wrote: »
    Yesterday, the tech company involved in the DCC for Ireland said that july19 was an 'optimistic' date. How the hell is that possible?

    Do you know which tech company is doing this "rollout"? I thought it was being done in-house.

    Personally I think it's a combination of both incompetence and deliberate negligence.

    Incompetence because it was clear for months what format the cert would take and what data was being required. According to forbes on June 13th, 12 EU countries were already using the pass.

    Deliberate negligence because the validation step is standalone and (obviously) common to all EU countries. I guarantee you that Dublin Airport could pick up the phone today and get standalone validator boxes by tomorrow. Plug them in and go, assuming the DAA is competent enough to find a wall socket. If you download the government public keys first, you don't even need internet access - it's hardly as if those certs are going to change!

    But that would be politically embarrassing wouldn't it? All other EU citizens able to scan a QR code but Irish citizens can't? So I believe they're deliberately not implementing it.


  • #2


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0706/1233354-covid-update/

    "People who are fully vaccinated will receive their EU Digital Covid Certificates by either email or post from next week, under plans being finalised by the Government.

    it is understood that if a person was vaccinated after registering via the Health Service Executive portal, they will receive their documentation through email.

    However, if a person received their vaccine through a GP, or a pharmacy, they will receive a letter in the post.

    Each letter will contain a code which can be scanned onto a smartphone"

    Well, nothing wrong with that i suppose..


  • #2


    carveone wrote: »
    Do you know which tech company is doing this "rollout"? I thought it was being done in-house.

    Personally I think it's a combination of both incompetence and deliberate negligence.

    Incompetence because it was clear for months what format the cert would take and what data was being required. According to forbes on June 13th, 12 EU countries were already using the pass.

    Deliberate negligence because the validation step is standalone and (obviously) common to all EU countries. I guarantee you that Dublin Airport could pick up the phone today and get standalone validator boxes by tomorrow. Plug them in and go, assuming the DAA is competent enough to find a wall socket. If you download the government public keys first, you don't even need internet access - it's hardly as if those certs are going to change!

    But that would be politically embarrassing wouldn't it? All other EU citizens able to scan a QR code but Irish citizens can't? So I believe they're deliberately not implementing it.

    I agree with you. They put hurdles in the way so that people were reluctant to book flights for the period straight after july 19.
    The government simply did not want to give clarity, airports not ready to scan etc. So, a week before the 19th they 'happened' to be ready providing some form of a DCC.
    Better late than never (or later)..


  • #2


    I'm waiting for clarity on travel from the UK after the 19th. Don't fancy having to use 5 days leave until I can get a negative PCR test when that rule is gone for over 25 other countries. (Due my second vaccine this week)


  • #2


    Caranica wrote: »
    I'm waiting for clarity on travel from the UK after the 19th. Don't fancy having to use 5 days leave until I can get a negative PCR test when that rule is gone for over 25 other countries. (Due my second vaccine this week)

    Are you irish?
    I ask because i dont know which rules apply and flying out fr the UK even if you are a EU citizen. I believe they do check where you are flying from.
    Coming fr the UK might present issues.
    Thats why i decided to fly fr Dublin to Amsterdam after july 19 and back even though i live in Donegal and usually fly fr Belfast.

    But this is good news:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57730092

    Germany lifting ban of UK citizens.
    For fully vaccinated people.
    No quarantine.
    Dont know about PCR tests.


  • #2


    I'm just going from Ireland to the UK and back. I know I'm fine for going there but it's whether Ireland will remove the self isolation and PCR requirements for fully vaccinated people coming from the UK as well as those from the EU.


  • #2


    Caranica wrote: »
    I'm just going from Ireland to the UK and back. I know I'm fine for going there but it's whether Ireland will remove the self isolation and PCR requirements for fully vaccinated people coming from the UK as well as those from the EU.

    I take it you are not flying fr Belfast then..


  • #2


    Ballynally wrote: »
    I take it you are not flying fr Belfast then..

    No. I'm flying from Dublin 5 days after non essential travel resumes


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