New NCT check

bop1977

The Nct will now check for error codes stored in the obd.

https://www.ncts.ie/1157/

Atlantic Dawn

Wonder will that show up DPF removals.

Seth Brundle

Cue a lot of time wasted while testers fiddle about looking for the OBD port

antodeco

Reading it suggests it's OBD2 ports? I've an OBD1 port in the engine bay.

Also, what are the error codes they'll fail on? If you're using non-standard bulbs, it could throw up an error code I assume?

grogi

antodeco wrote: »

Reading it suggests it's OBD2 ports? I've an OBD1 port in the engine bay.

Also, what are the error codes they'll fail on? If you're using non-standard bulbs, it could throw up an error code I assume?

Abs and traction control issues

somebody_else

I see business opportunity here.
Someone with ODB scanner clearing errors in the cars waiting for NCT for a 10-15 euros ?

Must be too many people passing lately.

corsav6

somebody_else wrote: »

I see business opportunity here.
Someone with ODB scanner clearing errors in the cars waiting for NCT for a 10-15 euros ?

Ah, like the tyre places popping up beside a lot of test centres.

Obviously they can't fail a car on an old stored code. If there's no warning on the dash then why read codes? I'd imagine it's just to check if egr and dpf have been mapped out.

mgbgt1978

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Wonder will that show up DPF removals.

As they are simply checking for error codes I doubt it. Unless a DPF removal throws a light then there is no error code.
At the moment this seems to be more aimed at people who have removed/messed with ABS failure Bulbs, etc.

colm_mcm

antodeco wrote: »

Reading it suggests it's OBD2 ports? I've an OBD1 port in the engine bay.

Also, what are the error codes they'll fail on? If you're using non-standard bulbs, it could throw up an error code I assume?

It’s only for post 2008 cars I think

golondrinas1

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s only for post 2008 cars I think

That would be a lot of cars.

mgbgt1978

....and even more next year.

What does that have to do with road safety?

Whilst I agree with the NCT's existence, and it's general purpose - this is getting a bit silly.


EDIT: Didn't realise they actually do specify what they're at:

---

In an effort to meet Ireland’s strategic objectives and continue to lead the way in improving road safety through the use of vehicle technology. Ireland in accordance with EU Directive 2014/45, will commence the use of OBD testing as part of the National Car Test (NCT) from 21st June 2021.

Ireland will be one of the first of the EU Member states to implement this new approach of testing which will help contribute to significantly safer vehicles on Irish roads.

The following changes will come into effect in the NCT from the 21st June 2021.

NCT Manual 2021

From this date, a new version of the NCT manual V5.0 (June 2021) will come into operation. The NCT manual lists each item on which a car will be tested. It lays down the test method and pass/fail criteria to be adopted for the compulsory road-worthiness testing of passenger vehicles. It provides guidance in relation to why a vehicle may fail the NCT and the categorisation of defects.

The new manual is updated in line with Directive 2014/45 (EU) and is available for download on the NCTS website (www.ncts.ie) and Road Safety Authority website (www.rsa.ie)

OBD Testing

An On-Board Diagnostics System (OBD) is a computer system inside a vehicle, that tracks and regulates a car's performance. It collects information from sensors inside the vehicle, to alert the user to a problem, often before it becomes a major issue.

From the 21st June, OBD testing will become an inspection item in the NCT. It will be introduced on a phased basis. Initially, when an OBD error code is detected it will result in the vehicle receiving an “Advisory Pass”. Then, from early 2022, when an error code is detected, this may constitute a reason for “failure”.

The inspection is quick and easy, the NCT Vehicle Inspector will plug the OBD scanner into the vehicle's OBD computer port known as the DLC (data link connector). This port is usually located under the steering wheel but may also be found in the glove compartment of the vehicle.

This OBD scanner will quickly indicate whether or not error codes exist, and it also helps and alerts the Vehicle Inspector to possible defects within the vehicle.

In order for the NCTS to conduct the inspection, we ask customers to ensure:

Their glove compartments are unlocked and clear of personal belongings before their NCT.
That any devices using the OBD port in the vehicle are removed in advance of the NCT.

The OBD scanner will scan the OBD system for:

Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)

Using the OBD scanner, the Vehicle Inspector will verify that the VIN read by the OBD scanner matches the number on the vehicle. While a difference will not be a reason for failure, the OBD VIN reading will be recorded on the VIR (Vehicle Inspection Report) issued to the customer.

Odometer Reading

The Vehicle Inspector will record the odometer reading at the time of the test. They will also verify the reading using the OBD scanner and customers will be alerted to both readings on their VIR report.

Electronic Braking System (EBS)

Any error code associated with the electronic braking system will be recorded on the Vehicle Inspection Report (VIR) provided to the customer following their NCT inspection.

Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)

Any error code associated with the antilock braking system will be recorded on the Vehicle Inspection Report (VIR) provided to the customer following their NCT inspection.

While, initially, vehicles with error codes will be recorded as ‘Advisory Pass’, the NCTS strongly recommends that any error codes be addressed by the vehicle repairer. However, the vehicle will not need to return for re-inspection, for these items alone.

From early 2022, should certain error codes be detected, they will constitute a reason for failure in the NCT and an NCT certificate will not be issued until the items are rectified and a pass result is achieved.

We recommend you liaise with your local garage/ mechanic who should be equipped with the necessary diagnostic equipment to perform this scan in advance of going for an NCT.

Escalation of Defects

The new NCT manual identifies that, where a combination of deficiencies is recorded in the NCT in one area of a vehicle, the combination of deficiencies could lead to the result of the NCT being escalated to ‘fail dangerous’.

An example of one such combination is the inspection item, Brake Pedal. If the following 3 major defects appear on the overall test result, the result will be escalated to fail dangerous:

Pedal travel is excessive, obstructed or insufficient reserve travel.
Brake control not releasing correctly.
Travel in the brake pedal indicates air in the brake system or brakes are in need of adjustment

In such instances, the deficiencies are considered to constitute a direct or immediate risk to road safety and the vehicle should not be driven on the road under any circumstances, in accordance with The Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2017, S.I. 415 of 2017.

For more information on these changes please see our FAQ

For further information on the items inspected in the NCT, please refer to the NCT Manual

Atlantic Dawn

Deleted User wrote: »

What does that have to do with road safety?

Whilst I agree with the NCT's existence, and it's general purpose - this is getting a bit silly.

Disabling or malfunctioning ABS or traction control systems would be dangerous.

challengemaster

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Wonder will that show up DPF removals.

Nope. If it's done right they're coded out at the ECU level, they never throw faults ever again because the car no longer thinks it has one.

corsav6

challengemaster wrote: »

Nope. If it's done right they're coded out at the ECU level, they never throw faults ever again because the car no longer thinks it has one.

ECU keeps track of regens and also tells what the current soot levels are. If the dpf has been mapped out it'll be fairly obvious.

challengemaster

corsav6 wrote: »

ECU keeps track of regens and also tells what the current soot levels are. If the dpf has been mapped out it'll be fairly obvious.

They're looking for error codes, they're not going to spend half an hour checking every setting available in the diagnostics.

mgbgt1978

I hope not

CoBo55

corsav6 wrote: »

ECU keeps track of regens and also tells what the current soot levels are. If the dpf has been mapped out it'll be fairly obvious.

I think it shows the soot level below the fault value when mapped out, the ecu thinks all is happy in the camp, no fault recorded (when done properly)

zg3409

somebody_else wrote: »

I see business opportunity here.
Someone with ODB scanner clearing errors in the cars waiting for NCT for a 10-15 euros ?

How about a special obd port that says all is good. Just remove genuine one...

I know an employee in a motor parts shop and one of the best sellers is a box that turns a dash light on for a second and off again. A daily sellers to dodgy garages. Used to hide ABS and airbag faults, so they can pass NCT.

Wetbench4

Just used a bluetooth obd, like Carly. Clear your codes before you head for the test..

zilog_jones

Although they haven't specifically mentioned it there, having OBD equipment at the test centre may allow them to perform emissions tests on hybrid vehicles - some models require putting it into a "test mode" via the OBD-II port in order for the ICE to run sufficiently. Currently, hybrids are exempt from emissions tests.

Toyotafanboi

I dunno, they've spelt is out pretty clearly. ABS and traction control faults is all they are looking for at present. Not checking engine faults, as of yet anyway.

That and verifying that the ECU chassis number and mileage match the chassis on the body and the mileage on the dash, which can only be a good thing for customers, really.

Toyotafanboi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

and the mileage on the dash

I thought fiddling with the computer was the only way to change the mileage nowadays anyway? So surely they wouldn't actually be able to cop onto clocked cars that way, as the mileage shown will be the same on the computer as on the dashboard (whereas in ye olden times, you may have physically rolled back an actual odometer).

CoBo55

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought fiddling with the computer was the only way to change the mileage nowadays anyway? So surely they wouldn't actually be able to cop onto clocked cars that way, as the mileage shown will be the same on the computer as on the dashboard (whereas in ye olden times, you may have physically rolled back an actual odometer).

I think the main ECU keeps its own track of mileage even if the instrument cluster has been altered, they never match exactly.

zg3409

My understanding of modern clocking is car will allow it but set a flag to say it has been changed. With more dodgy hardware the flag can be reset. The flag can be checked by dealers but not reset. Dealers may also have international access to previous readings during services in the past.

I assume the NCT will just pull the readings and not go deeper to check if it has an modified flags present.

Toyotafanboi

The dash records mileage and the engine ECU records mileage (and hours) seperately. Clocking only changes the dash reading.

I dont think they could ever make "clocking" or non matching numbers a fail item but it is good that the historic reading are on the test certs.

listermint

This will as make the test longer meaning they will charge more.


All about the Benjamin's

dubbrin

zilog_jones wrote: »

Although they haven't specifically mentioned it there, having OBD equipment at the test centre may allow them to perform emissions tests on hybrid vehicles - some models require putting it into a "test mode" via the OBD-II port in order for the ICE to run sufficiently. Currently, hybrids are exempt from emissions tests.

or tell the VAG ECU's to stay the f**k away from their infamous "test mode"....

kirving

zg3409 wrote: »

How about a special obd port that says all is good. Just remove genuine one...

I know an employee in a motor parts shop and one of the best sellers is a box that turns a dash light on for a second and off again. A daily sellers to dodgy garages. Used to hide ABS and airbag faults, so they can pass NCT.

Dodgy motor factor as well as dodgy garage, that's something with potential fatal consequences.

mgbgt1978

As clocking a car is neither illegal nor an NCT fail there is nothing they can do about a discrepancy between the cluster reading and the ECU reading.
Be interesting to see which figure they put on the cert....the ECU would be the sensible one, but maybe they are obliged to use the 'displayed figure'.

CoBo55

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

As clocking a car is neither illegal nor an NCT fail there is nothing they can do about a discrepancy between the cluster reading and the ECU reading.
Be interesting to see which figure they put on the cert....the ECU would be the sensible one, but maybe they are obliged to use the 'displayed figure'.

Cluster I'd imagine, the ecu reading isn't very accurate it's more of a guesstimate.

grogi

CoBo55 wrote: »

Cluster I'd imagine, the ecu reading isn't very accurate it's more of a guesstimate.

Why is it less accurate? It receives exactly same inputs, exp. from driveshaft sensor.

CoBo55

grogi wrote: »

Why is it less accurate? It receives exactly same inputs, exp. from driveshaft sensor.

No I don't think it does at least that's what a VW mechanic told me, there's always a difference between them, maybe it's deliberate.

Toyotafanboi

The ECU is often marginally higher as in lots of cars you can erase the transport mileage from the instrument cluster. Usually for a car with 10 or 15kms on it you wouldn't bother but you would come across the odd car that's been in storage for an eternity and dealer swapped a few times could have 60 or 70kms on it, that'll get cleared :pac:

btree

antodeco wrote: »

Reading it suggests it's OBD2 ports? I've an OBD1 port in the engine bay.

Also, what are the error codes they'll fail on? If you're using non-standard bulbs, it could throw up an error code I assume?

I saw the notice, it says that
" From the 21st June, OBD testing will become an inspection item in the NCT. It will be introduced on a phased basis. Initially, when an OBD error code is detected it will result in the vehicle receiving an “Advisory Pass”. Then, from early 2022, when an error code is detected, this may constitute a reason for “failure”.

Irish Steve

Pity they've not added airbags to the check, as most common issues are airbag faults rather than brake or wheel issue, and depending on the nature of the airbag fault, they can be dormant for a while.

Good luck on finding some of the OBD port locations, some of the Renault and Citroen ranges they are in the most obscure of locations, under mats or hidden in centre console bins.

It will be interesting to see if there are any statisitics released on the number of faults found in this way.

challengemaster

At least now you can stick the €50 note to the obd port instead of the centre console :pac:

wonski

I think it was coming sooner or later given the advance of technology and amount of passive safety systems in modern cars.

As for location of obd ports they will probably have a list of obscure places to look at or, worse case scenario, use Google

mgbgt1978

Irish Steve wrote: »

Pity they've not added airbags to the check, as most common issues are airbag faults rather than brake or wheel issue, and depending on the nature of the airbag fault, they can be dormant for a while.

Good luck on finding some of the OBD port locations, some of the Renault and Citroen ranges they are in the most obscure of locations, under mats or hidden in centre console bins.

It will be interesting to see if there are any statisitics released on the number of faults found in this way.

It's a safe bet to assume that airbag faults will be included from 'early 2022' (their timescale) , as that seems to be when they will begin failing cars rather than just 'advising'

Irish Steve

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

It's a safe bet to assume that airbag faults will be included from 'early 2022' (their timescale) , as that seems to be when they will begin failing cars rather than just 'advising'

Don't have any issues with that, the number of people that have called into my local garage asking them to take the airbag warning bulb out before they go for the NCT is only woeful, and given that in some cases, a fault on the system can mean that the airbags don't fire when needed, I have to question the mentality of some people.

Fortunately, the garage can refuse the request, and explain that a non functional bulb on the airbag system will cause a NCT fail, as it has to illuminate when the ignition is turned on, and if it does not, that will not get through.