Civil Service Pension

JimmyCorkhill

Interested to find out more about the Civil Service pension - currently employed in the private sector but thinking about if I did move into the Civil Service down the line.

I used the below link & the Standard Accrual Estimator Tool to calculate what would the expected pension be on retirement at 68, in say 2050.

This is based on a current salary of say €63k at 100% FTE.

https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/scheme-information/single-scheme-estimator-tool/

The tool is returning:
Single Scheme Retirement Lump Sum of €70.2k
Single Scheme Annual Retirement Pension of €13.8k
Annual Contributory State Pension of €13k

So excluding the Lump Sum it works out at around 42%/43% of your final salary assuming it was €63k for the rest of your time there. Thought it would be a bit higher but that is probably due to only having say 28/29 years in the civil service.

This is based on Scheme Contributions of €3.2k plus Additional Superannuation Contribution of €1k a year, so presumably it is costing you €4.2k off your gross Salary a year.

I then entered similar inputs on the below independent website & assumed salary was the same and that 8% would be contributed each month by me to the pension and this would be matched by the employer at 8%. So €5k off your gross salary a year.

Broadly speaking State Pension was similar for both tools as expected, however in terms of the actual annual pension from the pension authority tool it was returning around €3k less per year at €10.8k for the private pension compared to what the civil service pension would give at €13.8k.

https://www.pensionsauthority.ie/en/lifecycle/useful-resources/pension-calculator/

There is also the lump sum with the civil service pension that if you took a lump sum from your private pension if privately employed you would then presumably reduce your annual pension by virtue of the fact your pension pot has been reduced.

While it definitely reads like the Civil Service Pension is better and ultimately less risky, I always thought it would be a lot more attractive. All well and good retiring at 68 but you may not get 20 years of pension if you don't live that long.

Is there anything glaringly obvious I am missing in the above in relation to the Civil Service pension?

Thanks

Shane Fitz

JimmyCorkhill wrote: »

Interested to find out more about the Civil Service pension - currently employed in the private sector but thinking about if I did move into the Civil Service down the line.

I used the below link & the Standard Accrual Estimator Tool to calculate what would the expected pension be on retirement at 68, in say 2050.

This is based on a current salary of say €63k at 100% FTE.

https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/scheme-information/single-scheme-estimator-tool/

The tool is returning:
Single Scheme Retirement Lump Sum of €70.2k
Single Scheme Annual Retirement Pension of €13.8k
Annual Contributory State Pension of €13k

So excluding the Lump Sum it works out at around 42%/43% of your final salary assuming it was €63k for the rest of your time there. Thought it would be a bit higher but that is probably due to only having say 28/29 years in the civil service.

This is based on Scheme Contributions of €3.2k plus Additional Superannuation Contribution of €1k a year, so presumably it is costing you €4.2k off your gross Salary a year.

I then entered similar inputs on the below independent website & assumed salary was the same and that 8% would be contributed each month by me to the pension and this would be matched by the employer at 8%. So €5k off your gross salary a year.

Broadly speaking State Pension was similar for both tools as expected, however in terms of the actual annual pension from the pension authority tool it was returning around €3k less per year at €10.8k for the private pension compared to what the civil service pension would give at €13.8k.

https://www.pensionsauthority.ie/en/lifecycle/useful-resources/pension-calculator/

There is also the lump sum with the civil service pension that if you took a lump sum from your private pension if privately employed you would then presumably reduce your annual pension by virtue of the fact your pension pot has been reduced.

While it definitely reads like the Civil Service Pension is better and ultimately less risky, I always thought it would be a lot more attractive. All well and good retiring at 68 but you may not get 20 years of pension if you don't live that long.

Is there anything glaringly obvious I am missing in the above in relation to the Civil Service pension?

Thanks

So, despite what other may bang on about you've actually found out that the CS/PS pensions aren't not as "gold plated" as you were led to believe.

BhoyRayzor

Have a look at the increments for the different grades to get a better idea of what to use https://www.forsa.ie/other-benefits/pay-and-conditions/pay-scales/civil-service-payscales/

€63k would be just the starting point if entered in the excel sheet, increases are presumed and included in the calculations. So it would be more realistic to pick the starting point on one of those grades to use to get the approx figure then.

So for example an executive officer with 30 years service would have approx €48k average salary, with a final pension of approx €18,500, minus the state pension of €13k, leaving an civil service pension of €5,500. The corresponding contributions would be approx €81k between the GPR, NPR and ASC that are deducted or average 5.5%. Even with a promotion in there after say 7 years to HEO, it would only really bump up the yearly pension amount by about €3k, with higher deductions as well.

Needless to say the single scheme doesn't hold a candle to the old final salary pensions.

2 fast

SPS is very bad you'd be better off having an private pension.

Long gone are the days of a good public service pension.!

JimmyCorkhill

BhoyRayzor wrote: »

Have a look at the increments for the different grades to get a better idea of what to use https://www.forsa.ie/other-benefits/pay-and-conditions/pay-scales/civil-service-payscales/

€63k would be just the starting point if entered in the excel sheet, increases are presumed and included in the calculations. So it would be more realistic to pick the starting point on one of those grades to use to get the approx figure then.

So for example an executive officer with 30 years service would have approx €48k average salary, with a final pension of approx €18,500, minus the state pension of €13k, leaving an civil service pension of €5,500. The corresponding contributions would be approx €81k between the GPR, NPR and ASC that are deducted or average 5.5%. Even with a promotion in there after say 7 years to HEO, it would only really bump up the yearly pension amount by about €3k, with higher deductions as well.

Needless to say the single scheme doesn't hold a candle to the old final salary pensions.

Thanks for your reply, I took 63k as the rounded starting point on one of the payscales.

I guess the fact that you do get a lump sum on retirement and the annual civil service pension minus the state pension is higher than a private pension at 8% contribution matched means it is a bit better from a macro view, I am sure there are other things to consider to be more precise.

JimmyCorkhill

2 fast wrote: »

SPS is very bad you'd be better off having an private pension.

Long gone are the days of a good public service pension.!

I think it depends on the private pension, if it is say 8% matched than civil service is probably better.
Also depends on how well the private pension performs in terms of investment and that is presumably where the low/non risk of the civil service pension is better.

If you can get a private pension where the employer contributes double or 1.5 times what you contribute then that is a nice bump up.

Is there no health insurance in civil service? Which you would get in most private sector companies, so again another cost to consider.

Apart from job security, I wonder do many people move to the civil service now and realise maybe they were better off in the private sector financially.

2 fast

JimmyCorkhill wrote: »

I think it depends on the private pension, if it is say 8% matched than civil service is probably better.
Also depends on how well the private pension performs in terms of investment and that is presumably where the low/non risk of the civil service pension is better.

If you can get a private pension where the employer contributes double or 1.5 times what you contribute then that is a nice bump up.

Is there no health insurance in civil service? Which you would get in most private sector companies, so again another cost to consider.

Apart from job security, I wonder do many people move to the civil service now and realise maybe they were better off in the private sector financially.

Thank you that makes sense.
No there's is no Health insurance, tbf the perks of public job definitely do not outweigh private anymore!

WonderWall78

What are personal pension deductions? Noticed money is now being taken from my salary for personal pension deductions after only ever having been taken for lump sum pension 13.

Kirbi

They're the contributions post-95'ers make on each pay packet (along with S&C, etc).

If this has changed for you recently, you should contact your payroll centre to see what's changed - if you're a pre-95'er you shouldn't be paying them (or be on a PPC scale) unless you've had a significant break in service.

If you're a post-95'er you should've been on them all the time, and may owe contributions.

WonderWall78

I should pay a personal pension rate? On top of my lump sum pension 13 rate? 😱

Kirbi

I'm not sure what pension 13 is, but from my own there are 4 pension-related deductions/contributions:

- pension lump sum

- pension general

- spouses & children

- ASC

Rikand

In the civil service. To come out with any decent pension, you're going tohave to pay into an AVC to top up your lump sum/yearly salary.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117393785#Comment_117393785

Are you blind? He is showing the Civil Service returns more anually + lump sum and for less contributions. Not to mention that fact it is guaranteed. How is it not better than the private equivalent?

The fact the employer also has to contriubte 8% means it is costing the employee more in forgone salary.