DPF advice please

karlitob

Hi all

I have an 08 Renault Scenic. Recent service and NCT. Like most people I haven’t used the car at all really in the past 15 months. In total - 3 trips up and down to Wexford, the most recent being on Sunday 2.5 hour round trip; 5 trips to the office - 40 min round trip; depending on the rain, a 5 min drive to school.

On the school run this week - on Tuesday, when I started the car....a little slow to ignore, chugged a small bit and a big plume of smoke. A little sluggish on the drive to/from school. Same thing every morning.

Brough to garage - they were a little vague. They said the Fuel Pressure Sensor was showing up on the computer and that it’s likely that it’s a DPF issue.

Two options
- €800 cleaning
- €12 bottle of additive and drive it out.


Any comments or opinions would be greatly appreciated. I would like to keep the car going until it collapses - I’ve no interest in cars and just want to get from A to B. €800 sound expensive though I understand there are a few methods to clean it.

Thanks all.

colm_mcm

Get a second opinion. I’m not a mechanic but the diagnosis doesn’t make sense to me.

mk7r

A fuel pressure fault caused by the dpf? That's a new one, if it's fuel pump code it may be injectors

karlitob

Thanks all.

To be fair he said that the smoke and chugging was caused by the DPF issue. He said that you’d have to fix the DPF first before the fuel pressure sensor issue as they could be related.

I really like these guys - been going to them for years but in the past year they haven’t been great. Missed something big before the NCT also.

Does the chugging and smoke and DPF make sense? Does the additive sound like a reasonable fix?

What problems have can the fuel pressure sensor cause?

User1998

€800 is way too much for a DPF clean

challengemaster

You’d have the DPF removed and coded out for less than 800

POBox19

Spend the €12 on Dipethane first, fill the tank and add it. Then take a good run on the motorway for 45 minutes each way. Each day you run the car let the engine and exhaust get hot. I used Dipethane and it sorted out my old 2L Ford diesel.

bazz26

karlitob wrote: »

Hi all

I have an 08 Renault Scenic. Recent service and NCT. Like most people I haven’t used the car at all really in the past 15 months. In total - 3 trips up and down to Wexford, the most recent being on Sunday 2.5 hour round trip; 5 trips to the office - 40 min round trip; depending on the rain, a 5 min drive to school.

On the school run this week - on Tuesday, when I started the car....a little slow to ignore, chugged a small bit and a big plume of smoke. A little sluggish on the drive to/from school. Same thing every morning.

Brough to garage - they were a little vague. They said the Fuel Pressure Sensor was showing up on the computer and that it’s likely that it’s a DPF issue.

Two options
- €800 cleaning
- €12 bottle of additive and drive it out.


Any comments or opinions would be greatly appreciated. I would like to keep the car going until it collapses - I’ve no interest in cars and just want to get from A to B. €800 sound expensive though I understand there are a few methods to clean it.

Thanks all.

This highlighted bit is something I'd be concerned with. Sound like they don't know with any sort of certainty but you will have to pay to find out if their guess is correct. I know troubleshooting issues is not an exact science at times but it sounds like your money will be financing their vague guessing.

Get a second opinion who knows what they are looking at would be my advice as DPFs were not standard on diesel cars made back in 2008 so your car may not even have one.

User1998

POBox19 wrote: »

Spend the €12 on Dipethane first, fill the tank and add it. Then take a good run on the motorway for 45 minutes each way. Each day you run the car let the engine and exhaust get hot. I used Dipethane and it sorted out my old 2L Ford diesel.

If there are fault codes stored on the ECU it’s possible that the car won’t regenerate until the faults are removed. Open to correction

cpoh1

Is this the 1.5 dci engine?

its typically between 200-300 for a DPF to be cleaned professionally labour to remove and reinstall excluded. 500 for labour sounds steep for a back yard garage to be honest for this type of car.

Hurrache

Are they sure it even has a DPF? Up until 2010 at least the 1.5DCi didn't all have one.

frozenfrozen

When did you last put diesel into it? If you're on a low tank of a few months old diesel that won't help anything run nicely

Same too your battery could be on the way out if its original and sat unused a lot

Might not be the causes but won't help

karlitob

cpoh1 wrote: »

Is this the 1.5 dci engine?

its typically between 200-300 for a DPF to be cleaned professionally labour to remove and reinstall excluded. 500 for labour sounds steep for a back yard garage to be honest for this type of car.

Yes - that’s the engine. It’s an atlas auto - not even back yard garage.

karlitob

frozenfrozen wrote: »

When did you last put diesel into it? If you're on a low tank of a few months old diesel that won't help anything run nicely

Same too your battery could be on the way out if its original and sat unused a lot

Might not be the causes but won't help

Battery changed two years ago.

Full tank put in on Sunday while doing a drive to Wexford from Dublin and back.

karlitob

POBox19 wrote: »

Spend the €12 on Dipethane first, fill the tank and add it. Then take a good run on the motorway for 45 minutes each way. Each day you run the car let the engine and exhaust get hot. I used Dipethane and it sorted out my old 2L Ford diesel.

Thanks for this. I went to Wexford on Sunday. Return trip - same day. 75 mins each way @ 130kph average.

Any idea why the chugging and plume of smoke happened after we went for a long drive?

Is it because i didn’t have the dipethane in while doing that trip. So maybe that’s the difference.

PukkaStukka

Hurrache wrote: »

Are they sure it even has a DPF? Up until 2010 at least the 1.5DCi didn't all have one.

Was thinking the exact same

Speedline

Are you sure the mechanic didn't say it was the egr valve?

karlitob

Speedline wrote: »

Are you sure the mechanic didn't say it was the egr valve?

Yeah - up there again this morning to collect. They were very vague but mentioned the DPF again and it would need to be done properly - “dipthaine wknt do it”.

karlitob

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Was thinking the exact same

Asked that question today - “I don’t know”. Surely there’s a way to check is there? Some online specs somewhere?

Gen.Zhukov

Do you have a light on the dash?

cpoh1

If the mechanic doesnt know if it hasnt a dpf you are in trouble straight away, anyone could spot it under a ramp.

Second opinion needed.

POBox19

karlitob wrote: »

Thanks for this. I went to Wexford on Sunday. Return trip - same day. 75 mins each way @ 130kph average.

Any idea why the chugging and plume of smoke happened after we went for a long drive?

Is it because i didn’t have the dipethane in while doing that trip. So maybe that’s the difference.

Did you by any chance top up or change the engine oil? There is a different oil requirement depending on whether there is a DPF or not.

karlitob

Gen.Zhukov wrote: »

Do you have a light on the dash?

Nothing.

karlitob

POBox19 wrote: »

Did you by any chance top up or change the engine oil? There is a different oil requirement depending on whether there is a DPF or not.

Not recently. Service in Feb.

karlitob

cpoh1 wrote: »

If the mechanic doesnt know if it hasnt a dpf you are in trouble straight away, anyone could spot it under a ramp.

Second opinion needed.

Yeah - now it’s not starting. Wife couldn’t start it. Not starting at all now. Tried it myself.

grogi

karlitob wrote: »

Yeah - up there again this morning to collect. They were very vague but mentioned the DPF again and it would need to be done properly - “dipthaine wknt do it”.

That diagnosis sounds like a complete nonsense to me.

Black smoke is a result of too much diesel/too little oxygen being combined. This might happen because for instance by:
- pressurized air is leaking the intake manifold after the air mass sensor
- EGR being blocked in open state, which causes a lot of dirty air into the engine
- an injector that is leaking fuel
- fuel pressure sensor is faulty and reported pressure is too little. Injectors try to compensate by opening for longer and flood the engine

karlitob

grogi wrote: »

That diagnosis sounds like a complete nonsense to me.

Black smoke is a result of too much diesel/too little oxygen being combined. This might happen because for instance by:
- pressurized air is leaking the intake manifold after the air mass sensor
- EGR being blocked in open state, which causes a lot of dirty air into the engine
- an injector that is leaking fuel
- fuel pressure sensor is faulty and reported pressure is too little. Injectors try to compensate by opening for longer and flood the engine

I think you’re right. It’s a diagnosis based on something I said rather than an investigation.

Battery went dead in the car park. The attendant had a battery pack thing that put a bit of juice in it. Had it out with them in the garage. They said the green gel on the battery was fine so it wasn’t the battery. Then he put the voltage meter on - the reading said 14.5V while turned on and that it needed replacing. When I asked him did he check the battery - he said it could be anything. You can imagine my response.

They kept talking about the dpf as not having the computers to assess it as if it’s the only problem with the car - all based on no investigation.

It’s so frustrating.

Car is currently on for a few hours in the front garden.

Any benefit it going for a drive later to clear it out.

Obviously I need a second opinion.

grogi

I assume you wanted to charge the battery by running the car idle: here is hardly any charging when idling. An hour of normal driving will charge the battery. If not, it simply needs replacing.

Regarding DPF: reading https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/threads/dpf-fitted-resolved.288945/ suggests you might not even have DPF in the car. Check for stickers at the drivers doors and engine bay to see if anywhere you can find mentioned DPF/FAP. Give Renault a call, give them VIN and see what they tell.

karlitob

grogi wrote: »

I assume you wanted to charge the battery by running the car idle: here is hardly any charging when idling. An hour of normal driving will charge the battery. If not, it simply needs replacing.

Regarding DPF: reading https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/threads/dpf-fitted-resolved.288945/ suggests you might not even have DPF in the car. Check for stickers at the drivers doors and engine bay to see if anywhere you can find mentioned DPF/FAP. Give Renault a call, give them VIN and see what they tell.

Thank you.

Mechanic suggested letting it run idle. Is that not correct?

I drove 3 hours on Sunday to Wexford and back. Would that not have helped? Why might it have died after such a long drive? Maybe that’s an inkling to get it replaced.

Will look for DPT as above. Might just have to bite the bullet and bring it to the dealership. €1000k I’d say, knowing my luck.

Thanks for everyone’s comments and replies.

colm_mcm

Just ring them and ask if you have DPF. I think even parts dept could tell you that.

Speedline

A bad battery can cause running problems. I would get it properly tested before spending 1000s.

karlitob

Got the insurance company to send out roadside assistance.

He tried starting the car - wouldn’t start.

He said that he thinks it’s trying to start but starved of fuel. He reckons it’s the fuel pump - especially when I said about the fuel pressure sensor. He said if he had easy start he could put it into the air box but he didn’t have it in the van.


Does that all make sense?

Hurrache

There's probably a manual pump under the bonnet somewhere, it's used for when the car runs out of fuel to get some back into the engine again. If there's one, pump it a bit to see if it then starts and will give you an idea if the issue is it being starved of fuel.

karlitob

Hurrache wrote: »

There's probably a manual pump under the bonnet somewhere, it's used for when the car runs out of fuel to get some back into the engine again. If there's one, pump it a bit to see if it then starts and will give you an idea if the issue is it being starved of fuel.

Thanks for that. Now you say it - I think he may have done that. He went to the back of the car then to the fuel pump.

Anyway - it’s with a new garage now.

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice. I’ll keep you posted on the problem/outcome.

FrankC21

Any updates? I have the same engine on my fluence just curious about the result, cause I have been driving mine almost every single day more than 100km a day and will be driving it more.

So far no issues with mine just coming close to getting it serviced, oil and filter change, nonstop spending just recently got the all brakes done on it.
.

karlitob

FrankC21 wrote: »

Any updates? I have the same engine on my fluence just curious about the result, cause I have been driving mine almost every single day more than 100km a day and will be driving it more.

So far no issues with mine just coming close to getting it serviced, oil and filter change, nonstop spending just recently got the all brakes done on it.
.

Thanks for checking in. Still waiting for the mechanic to call me. Local lad that comes highly recommended. They’re booked up til end of June but he’s squeezing me in this week.

I hope it’s just the fuel filter and it isn’t too expensive. I think the car costs me about €700 a year if not more in extra costs over the last 10 years. The joys of car ownership.

karlitob

I put petrol in rather than diesel - an expensive and embarrassing mistake.

colm_mcm

Not as embarrassing as the first garage.

karlitob

colm_mcm wrote: »

Not as embarrassing as the first garage.

Ha! That’s very generous of you.

That said, the new mechanic gave a very good reason why it couldn’t be the DPF filter - there is none!!

CianRyan

Glad to hear you got sorted, I was reading until the end to tell you it was definitely a fueling issue of some sort.
I've a lot of time inside the engines, if the fuel filter wasn't changed I'd recommend it even if it's running properly now. They're about €40 and a half hours labour so not a big job.