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Selling stock at mart

  • 10-06-2021 1:06pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey


    Just wondering if you all do anything when representing your livestock at mart to push on the price when you're standing up beside the auctioneer?
    Heading to the mart next week with some weanling heifers.
    Do you stand there and take it as it comes, keep saying no until the bitter death, or anything else?
    Usually someone else gets the customer facing role but I've drawn the short straw this time and it got me thinking about the whole charade and pantomime of selling.

    I usually just put them "on the market" or "no sale". Not much discussions with the auctioneer though apart from that and "I'd need a bit more" :D.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Albert Johnson


    I'd spend 3-5 days a week in different marts depending on the time of year and tbh I'm dubious if the seller being present at the point of sale makes much difference to the actual price. For a large part of the last 18 months there was no sellers present during the sale and stock were as dear if not dearer than ever. From watching the recent easing of restrictions and sellers returing to the seller's box it's only slowed down the sale's process but made the stock no dearer imo.

    To answer your question I like to see my stock sold and would usually have a guide price in mind beforehand. However as above I see stock selling daily so I'd have a good idea what they were worth and I'm a reasonable judge of stock and weights. Once I go into the box I'd usually let the auctioneer know what I was expecting and we'd go from there. You'll always have to compromise a bit if you want to sell them all and some will make a bit more or less than you expect and it's the average that counts. It helps to know what you have and there rough value so that you don't come across as a soft target but it's not as complicated as some would make out either. Best of luck with your stock.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey


    We sold some during lockdown when we were allowed in but didn't attend and felt the hammer dropped a bit too quickly.

    You kind of sum up my thoughts on the matter, thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭ Sugarbowl


    Are you allowed back into the mart again if you’re selling?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey


    We are, but I'm up in the occupied 6.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,451 ✭✭✭ SuperTortoise


    Just wondering if you all do anything when representing your livestock at mart to push on the price when you're standing up beside the auctioneer?
    Heading to the mart next week with some weanling heifers.
    Do you stand there and take it as it comes, keep saying no until the bitter death, or anything else?
    Usually someone else gets the customer facing role but I've drawn the short straw this time and it got me thinking about the whole charade and pantomime of selling.

    I usually just put them "on the market" or "no sale". Not much discussions with the auctioneer though apart from that and "I'd need a bit more" :D.

    Do your research first, have a minimum price per head you'd sell at already in the head before you go into the box, knowing the weight of your cattle is a huge advantage, if you don't know the value of your cattle then watch a few marts and you'd get a general idea of what the current market value is.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,909 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    I think with the online system and nobody present it has been great and fair for sellers and buyers, I’m sure dealers would rather ringside sales though, they always seem to love claiming cattle and beating down on anyone else trying to buy “their stock”


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ jfh


    The benefit of not been in the box is you have time to think about it, not pushed into decision straight away


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,843 ✭✭✭✭ whelan2


    We put an ad on donedeal a few days before we went to the mart. Tbh it's the luck on the day, all you need is 2 bidder who really want what you're selling


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭ Mad about baa baas


    I'd always be of the opinion that if you're bringing stock to a sale it's to sell them..cant understand lads bringing animals to the mart for a spin and bringing them home again for the sake of a fiver or tenner..they tend to make their value..seems to me to be a waste of time and money not selling


  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭ timple23


    Story I heard recently was a farmer brought stock into the mart maybe a month ago and felt he got a poor price for them. Was driving along the road one day and saw them inside grazing in the auctioneer's field, he landed into the office about it. But I didn't hear anymore. (I don't know if mart phoned him to ask was he happy with price on day of auction)

    Could you ask the mart to be on the phone with you while they are in the ring?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,891 ✭✭✭ Base price


    timple23 wrote: »
    Story I heard recently was a farmer brought stock into the mart maybe a month ago and felt he got a poor price for them. Was driving along the road one day and saw them inside grazing in the auctioneer's field, he landed into the office about it. But I didn't hear anymore. (I don't know if mart phoned him to ask was he happy with price on day of auction)

    Could you ask the mart to be on the phone with you while they are in the ring?
    If the seller is not present then the cattle are sold "subject". The seller will get a phone call from one of the mart's office staff to let him know what price each lot achieved and whether they accept or reject the price. Most sellers who cannot attend the mart will watch their cattle go through the ring online either on the phone or laptop.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭ hopeso


    Just wondering if you all do anything when representing your livestock at mart to push on the price when you're standing up beside the auctioneer?
    Heading to the mart next week with some weanling heifers.
    Do you stand there and take it as it comes, keep saying no until the bitter death, or anything else?
    Usually someone else gets the customer facing role but I've drawn the short straw this time and it got me thinking about the whole charade and pantomime of selling.

    I usually just put them "on the market" or "no sale". Not much discussions with the auctioneer though apart from that and "I'd need a bit more" :D.

    I thought most cattle were sold 'on the market' and you just say yes or no when the hammer drops. That's how it is around here for years anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,843 ✭✭✭✭ whelan2


    I normally tell the auctioneer my bottom line. If I get over that great


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey


    hopeso wrote: »
    I thought most cattle were sold 'on the market' and you just say yes or no when the hammer drops. That's how it is around here for years anyway.

    Mostly yes. But you do see boy's saying no and shaking their head and then a few more bids come in and then they tell the auctioneer something and he declares they're on the market. All part of the theatrics.


  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭ Aravo


    hopeso wrote: »
    I thought most cattle were sold 'on the market' and you just say yes or no when the hammer drops. That's how it is around here for years anyway.

    IMO
    No seller present, just stated by auctioneer that animals are sold subject.

    With seller present, only goes on the market with seller approval and animal will be sold once animal goes on the market.

    Sellers were happier with online bidding only so the usual buyers could not see who was bidding against them. With restrictions easing, and buyers allowed ringside I'm afraid your back to the old story of buyers sorting things out.

    Some sheep marts have a policy of bidding and one offer to seller to accept or not. If not accepted, they move on to next lot.
    Other places have the back and forth between buyer and seller and the auctioneer as intermediary. Things can go on forever.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Albert Johnson


    Aravo wrote: »
    IMO
    No seller present, just stated by auctioneer that animals are sold subject.

    With seller present, only goes on the market with seller approval and animal will be sold once animal goes on the market.

    Sellers were happier with online bidding only so the usual buyers could not see who was bidding against them. With restrictions easing, and buyers allowed ringside I'm afraid your back to the old story of buyers sorting things out.

    Some sheep marts have a policy of bidding and one offer to seller to accept or not. If not accepted, they move on to next lot.
    Other places have the back and forth between buyer and seller and the auctioneer as intermediary. Things can go on forever.

    The method of selling varies from mart to mart and region to region. In some marts all stock are on the market from the word go and it's a simple yes or no once bidding has reached it's peak. In others there's a few rounds of bidding before the seller makes up there mind and the animal can then be placed on the market and the buyers still have an opportunity to place further bids. The former method is faster than the latter but doesn't offer the same opportunity for negotiations.

    With stock being placed on the market from the get go you only have one opportunity to be the highest bidder and therefore there's usually a quick flurry of bids before the hammer fall's. Compare this to a backwards and forwards negotiation between all parties and oftentimes a lot of the bidding is only undertaken after the animal is placed on the market. This can slow down the sales process particularly if the trade on the day is only average.


  • Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭ ruwithme


    Personally speaking I've always raised a eyebrow pre covid to stock sold subject. I'm sure mostly nothing was up other than seller genuinely not able to be there.

    Just puts a doubt in me anyway from a buyer's perspective.

    Op have a per kg figure pre mart day that your happy to accept,do the maths then as stock are weighed,you can then ask auctioneer will they fetch your minimum sale price. He'll have a good idea if he's trust worthy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭ orm0nd


    whelan2 wrote: »
    I normally tell the auctioneer my bottom line. If I get over that great

    I think you mentioned in another post you needed 2 interested customers. 1 will suffice if you're on good terms with the auctioneer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,819 ✭✭✭ bogman_bass


    I’m of the opinion that getting an animal on the market at a higher price just means less bids afterwards. It’ll end up the same price in the end.
    If you sell subject you get to say yes or no to the final price rather than the “on the market” price


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭ Grueller


    I will never be in the sellers box again. Watch the sale online, have a few minutes to think. Then either sell when the mart rings or draw them home. No pressure from auctioneers or buyers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,843 ✭✭✭✭ whelan2


    I’m of the opinion that getting an animal on the market at a higher price just means less bids afterwards. It’ll end up the same price in the end.
    If you sell subject you get to say yes or no to the final price rather than the “on the market” price

    We had a suckler cow and calf in the mart on Tuesday. Had her on donedeal for 1150. Put her on the market at 1150 got 1330. Happy days


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,469 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe


    I often think about this myself. What gets to me are the few arseh***s ringside that think they own the place. I sold cattle last week and the same guy ringside opened both lots at about €400 below what they made. He knew full well what they were worth, but he was trying to keep them cheap. I even think he bought both lots.
    The same guy buys for other people, so it's easy for him carry on like that. Years ago at our local mart, there was one local dealer who would always start off cattle high enough to keep things going. Even the auctioneer would look at him to get a bid to start things.

    is the online-bidding definitely staying now post covid. I think everyone is happy with it, buyers and sellers. Dealers are the only ones I hear complaining about it. :D

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭ hopeso



    is the online-bidding definitely staying now post covid. I think everyone is happy with it, buyers and sellers. Dealers are the only ones I hear complaining about it. :D

    Online bidding was an option at the local mart here long before covid ever happened. I'm sure any mart that offered it then will still offer it going forward. Maybe others will continue to offer it too, now that they've the system in place to do so..


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,909 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    Hopefully the online bidding remains, I know dealers are essential to the trade but the online kinda sets them back a step which is no harm.

    Pre covid it was frowned upon in our local mart for a seller not to be there and it rarely happened, I’d imagine they will be keen to get back to the old ways as quickly as possible.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Albert Johnson


    _Brian wrote: »
    Hopefully the online bidding remains, I know dealers are essential to the trade but the online kinda sets them back a step which is no harm.

    Pre covid it was frowned upon in our local mart for a seller not to be there and it rarely happened, I’d imagine they will be keen to get back to the old ways as quickly as possible.

    Now that the online system is present in the majority of marts I don't see why it won't be continued. The majority of buyer's will be ringside as opposed to online imo when both options are available but online bidding still has it's benefits and should be continued.

    As for seller's being present or not I don't think it makes much difference to the price as I've mentioned before. The main problem with selling stock subject can be that it's hard to get in contact with seller's afterwards to confirm if there taking the prices or not. Some lad's are next to impossible to get them to answer the phone and it causes problems as buyer's don't know for sure what they have bought.

    I carried a springer to the mart one night before the seller's were allowed in to the marts. Her owner asked me what was she worth when we loaded her, I said €1000 would be a good price and he mentioned €1100. I told him that there was no chance she'd make €1100 imo and that if he got around €1000 that would be it. She went through the ring and made €960, the office staff called him repeatedly and I rang him 4 or 5 times and no answer. Eventually I said to give the heifer to whoever bought her as I wasn't bringing her back and her owner obviously wasn't that pushed when he couldn't be contacted. The owner rang the office at 12 o'clock the following day enquiring as to what she made and said he thought she'd have made more, it's very hard to win in those situations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Before all the restrictions I was at a weanling sale. There’s an agent or dealer I know. He’d be selling for men and buying for men. I saw him bidding on 3 bull calves he was selling. I said to myself I’d need to get more old fashioned quick!
    I think you’re always far and away better being there and representing. When buyers see they’re your cattle they know the quality and likelihood of genuineness. Everyone there in person does facilitate calling cattle and I hate that with a passion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭ Sheep breeder


    I often think about this myself. What gets to me are the few arseh***s ringside that think they own the place. I sold cattle last week and the same guy ringside opened both lots at about €400 below what they made. He knew full well what they were worth, but he was trying to keep them cheap. I even think he bought both lots.
    The same guy buys for other people, so it's easy for him carry on like that. Years ago at our local mart, there was one local dealer who would always start off cattle high enough to keep things going. Even the auctioneer would look at him to get a bid to start things.

    is the online-bidding definitely staying now post covid. I think everyone is happy with it, buyers and sellers. Dealers are the only ones I hear complaining about it. :D

    Would you not think the auctioneer is to blame starting so low and all day getting up to the selling price, in a lot of the busy marts they don’t put up with that type of messing. In one mart we buy in the fall of the year he averages about 55 Weanling an hour. With the online and watching a lot of marts around the country we are of the opinion that the auctioneer was opening the stock a lot of the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭ jfh


    Is it common practice in most marts that they charge you for the entry fee if you don't show? I know ennis charge you the next time you show up but some smaller marts don't


  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭ 390kid


    I often think about this myself. What gets to me are the few arseh***s ringside that think they own the place. I sold cattle last week and the same guy ringside opened both lots at about €400 below what they made. He knew full well what they were worth, but he was trying to keep them cheap. I even think he bought both lots.
    The same guy buys for other people, so it's easy for him carry on like that. Years ago at our local mart, there was one local dealer who would always start off cattle high enough to keep things going. Even the auctioneer would look at him to get a bid to start things.

    is the online-bidding definitely staying now post covid. I think everyone is happy with it, buyers and sellers. Dealers are the only ones I hear complaining about it. :D

    Think there’s a few a them in every mart patsy. I remember being in carrigallen one night a good few years and a stranger opened up the dry cows very strong and put them into hefty money.
    Story was he was a bit peeved about prices he got the week before


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Albert Johnson


    390kid wrote: »
    Think there’s a few a them in every mart patsy. I remember being in carrigallen one night a good few years and a stranger opened up the dry cows very strong and put them into hefty money.
    Story was he was a bit peeved about prices he got the week before

    That's all well and good until he gets stuck with a few at strong money and no where to go with them. Polling is great but remember that someone ends up swallowing the poison and no matter how cute you are you'll get left high and dry occasionally.


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