Best free to air TV - options

AdrianG08

Getting rid of Sky in August, will be looking for the best possible TV service (FTA) I can get.

As many channels as I can get (not sky obviously, only FTA options) including irish channels on 1 box and remote. We already have the sky dish, I also like to do this without the need for a TV aerial on the roof.

Very basic question I know, but can someone advise on something reliable?

We have a relatively new 4K samsung TV also if that information is even relevant.

Thanks very much in advance.

dubrov

Here are a few options.
There are more but I've covered the main ones.

Option 1 - Use FreeSat Box plus in-built TV terrestrial tuner
If you have Sky HD (not Sky Q), this is just plug and play with no maintenance for the Freesat side (UK channels)
For Irish channels, you'll need to check your TV specs to make sure it has a DVB-T2 tuner.
To switch between Irish and UK channels you'll need to switch the input although you should get full 7 day programming guide for both.

Option 2 - Just use your TV
Check the specs to make sure it has a DVB-S2 tuner for satellite (UK channels) and DVB-T2 tuner for Saorview.
It is very likely that 5+ button presses would be needed to switch from Irish to UK channels
It would also probably be the poorest experience (less reliable recordings, poor User interface etc.).

Option 3 - Buy an Enigma2 combo box
This would give a similar experience to Sky but has a lot of setup/tweaking to be done (see rest of forum for details).
Please buy a decent box though (>100 Euro). The cheap ones can be painful to use and you'd be back with Sky in no time.
There is loads of open source software available for this box (think apps) that will allow you to simulate FreeSat ("EPG Import" for 7 day programming guide and "AutoBouquetMaker" to create the FreeSat ordered channel groups.). You can do loads more as well if you like to tinker.

Option 4 - Distribute TV over LAN
Signals would still come in over satellite (UK) and aerial (Irish) but would be distributed over your internal LAN.
You would need to buy some equipment for this to convert the incoming signal and likely to play it on your TV.
See other threads for more details



A few things to consider:
FTA VS FreeSat
Free-to-air(FTA) satellite refers to channels that you can receive for free over satellite.
FreeSat is software that operates on top of this and provides a nice grouping/order of the channels as well as a 7 day program guide.
Not all FTA channels appear in the FreeSat groups (although the main ones will).
For both FTA and FreeSat you need the same DVB-S2 tuner although FTA will only give you now and next TV guide.
It will say in your TV's specs if it supports FreeSat and you usually need to change the TV's region to UK to make it work.

Multiple tuners allow you to record one channel while watching another at the same time.
E.g. Twin satellite DVB-S2 tuners would allow you to watch/record one satellite channel and watch/record any other satellite channel simultaneously.

To get Saorview, you need an aerial. A cheap indoor one may work depending on your location.
You can also get Irish channels using Saorsat but this is from a different satellite to the UK channels. I believe not all content is available and you would need a change to your existing dish setup.

If you have Sky Q it uses a special LNB so you will likely need to change the LNB to make it all work. Some Sky Q LNBs have legacy outputs which would work and Sky HD is ok as well.

AdrianG08

dubrov wrote: »

Here are a few options.
There are more but I've covered the main ones.

Option 1 - Use FreeSat Box plus in-built TV terrestrial tuner
If you have Sky HD (not Sky Q), this is just plug and play with no maintenance for the Freesat side (UK channels)
For Irish channels, you'll need to check your TV specs to make sure it has a DVB-T2 tuner.
To switch between Irish and UK channels you'll need to switch the input although you should get full 7 day programming guide for both.

Option 2 - Just use your TV
Check the specs to make sure it has a DVB-S2 tuner for satellite (UK channels) and DVB-T2 tuner for Saorview.
It is very likely that 5+ button presses would be needed to switch from Irish to UK channels
It would also probably be the poorest experience (only now and next program guide available on Satellite, less reliable recordings etc.).

Option 3 - Buy an Enigma2 satellite box
This would give a similar experience to Sky but has a lot of setup/tweaking to be done (see rest of forum for details).
Please buy a decent box though (>100 Euro). The cheap ones can be painful to use and you'd be back with Sky in no time.

Option 4 - Distribute TV over LAN
Signals would still come in over satellite (UK) and aerial (Irish) but would be distributed over your internal LAN.
You would need to buy some equipment for this to convert the incoming signal and likely to play it on your TV.
See other threads for more details



A few things to consider
To get Saorview, you need an aerial. A cheap indoor one may work depending on your location.
You can also get Irish channels using Saorsat but this is from a different satellite to the UK channels. I believe not all content is available and you would need a change to your existing dish setup.

If you have Sky Q, you will need to change the LNB to make it all work.

Silly question, how can I find out if my TV has both the DVB-S2 tuner for satellite (UK channels) and DVB-T2 tuner for Saorview?

dubrov

Just look at the back of the TV and find the model number.
Then Google the specs which should list its tuners.

athlone573

Could this be Stickied?

Minor point on option 2, some TV's do have Saorview and Freesat (or at least, Irish TV channels as well as Freesat), but point taken about the button presses.

dubrov

athlone573 wrote: »

Could this be Stickied?

Minor point on option 2, some TV's do have Saorview and Freesat (or at least, Irish TV channels as well as Freesat), but point taken about the button presses.

True. I've removed the reference to Now/Next for TVs.
I've also added a few more details

icdg

athlone573 wrote: »

Could this be Stickied?

Minor point on option 2, some TV's do have Saorview and Freesat (or at least, Irish TV channels as well as Freesat), but point taken about the button presses.

The Admins previously asked the Mods to limit the number of stickies, so to sticky this one of the existing stickies has to be unstickied, which I’m loath to do.

Just on moving to FTA, important to check what LNB you have on your dish if you have Sky Q. If you have a wideband LNB (Sky logo, two outputs) the only FTA box that will work is an Arris Freesat 4K box. If you have a hybrid LNB (six outputs) you will be okay. Otherwise you need to swap the LNB for a regular one.

For Irish channels (Saorview) you may depending on your location and house need an external aerial. I could not make Saorview work for me on a rabbit’s ears and I’m sure I’m not the only one. You may still be able to access Irish services (with some programming blocked and having to endure up to two minutes of pre-roll adverts every time you change the channel) through online player services as an alternative.

Johnboy1951

@dubrov

You mention

For both FTA and FreeSat you need the same DVB-S2 tuner although FTA will only give you now and next TV guide.

You have also listed Enigma2 boxes for FTA but omitted to mention that 7day TV Guide is available on those boxes.

You might want to clarify that for completeness.

dxhound2005

Saorview recommend an external aerial, but they do recognise that places with strong signals will be OK with an inside one. As already stated it is very hit and miss and depends on local factors. Identify your nearest transmitter/s and try tuning them first.

Learn the menus on whatever equipment you have. There are regular reports here (on the Terrestrial forum) of missing channels, but people seem reluctant to even check their signal readings. Nearly always the reports are of one of the Multiplexes (Mux) being missing, while the other one is "perfect". There is very little between no signal and a perfect picture with digital.

http://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2RN-DTT-Television-Transmission-Network-Sept-2019-Rev.1.2.pdf

dubrov

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

@dubrov

You mention

You have also listed Enigma2 boxes for FTA but omitted to mention that 7day TV Guide is available on those boxes.

You might want to clarify that for completeness.

I've added a few more details on Enigma2 boxes.

lenovo1

In the process of buying a house and thinking about a good basic setup.

Option 1 looks the cleanest for no long term bills and basic Irish / UK channels.

Can I buy a FreeSat box in Ireland? Are they all the same?

Not sure on aerial or dish set up but I guess it might be worth investing. Any tips? Can I just get a guy to set it up? I presume I need multiple boxes for multiple TVs.

I don't think I will need to record, want to keep it simple.

greasepalm

Only buying a combo is a mistake and later saying i wish i had more feeds to allow more.

As like sky hd you need 2 sat feeds for a box with 2 sat tuners and i feed for saorview.

Eg Zgemma H7S has 2 sat tuners and 1 aerial tuner for Saorview + it can have an internal hdd for recordings.
Yes another box in another room with tv and more feeds if you wanted a choice.
Do your tvs have tuners as possible it has a saorview tuner and a splitter to feed box and tv.
That would allow you record on box and view other channel on tv.

You could buy a single tuner box for bedroom and use client mode from other box via network and no need for sat cables.

AdrianG08

Thanks very much for the replies, some of them are like reading text in another language though such is my basic knowledge of even the most basic set up.

Will get someone in to install something FTA when the time comes.

Johnboy1951

lenovo1 wrote: »

In the process of buying a house and thinking about a good basic setup.

Plan on some form of press/cabinet in a reasonably central location to place internet router and other such centralised communication devices.

I also put 4 Sat tuners and 2 Saorview tuners in my cabinet.
I have Cat 5e cable running to each room from there.
I serve TV signals from the tuners to all TV points in the house, as well as to PCs, laptops, phones and tablets.

It takes some planning and a willingness to DIY a lot of it.
The end result is a complete media service for the whole house, including recordings, stored media as well as live TV.
All available to everyone.
It can easily be used to serve a remote location (holiday home) if the internet connection is fast enough.

There are several ways to do this. I chose one way, but most are equally good.

lenovo1

greasepalm wrote: »

Only buying a combo is a mistake and later saying i wish i had more feeds to allow more.

As like sky hd you need 2 sat feeds for a box with 2 sat tuners and i feed for saorview.

Eg Zgemma H7S has 2 sat tuners and 1 aerial tuner for Saorview + it can have an internal hdd for recordings.
Yes another box in another room with tv and more feeds if you wanted a choice.
Do your tvs have tuners as possible it has a saorview tuner and a splitter to feed box and tv.
That would allow you record on box and view other channel on tv.

You could buy a single tuner box for bedroom and use client mode from other box via network and no need for sat cables.

Thanks.


I haven't felt the need to record tv over the past few years so think I can pass on that.

My tv does have a saorview tuner builtin which I currently use. However for non Irish channels I use a mix of apps on a firestick. It's not an issue for watching a series but I do miss just being able to flick through the channels. If I can spend a bit up front for convenience that would be worth it.

Ideally I could just go from the Irish to UK with the up button but if it's much cheaper changing input wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Can you help me understand client mode? So I connect a cable from the satellite dish to my main box but can have one in the bedroom connected by wifi?

dubrov

If you are happy with Saorview on the TV and aren't really into tinkering with the setup, you should just buy a Freesat Box.

The box will just need one satellite feed (two if you want to record).
If you have Sky HD already, then it should be just plug and play (just take the satellite cable out of the Sky box and plug it into the FreeSat box). The setup will be very straight forward and you won't need an installer.

Have a look on Amazon/freetv.ie/satellite.ie for the range of Freesat boxes.

greasepalm

lenovo1 wrote: »

Thanks.


I haven't felt the need to record tv over the past few years so think I can pass on that.

My tv does have a saorview tuner builtin which I currently use. However for non Irish channels I use a mix of apps on a firestick. It's not an issue for watching a series but I do miss just being able to flick through the channels. If I can spend a bit up front for convenience that would be worth it.

Ideally I could just go from the Irish to UK with the up button but if it's much cheaper changing input wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Can you help me understand client mode? So I connect a cable from the satellite dish to my main box but can have one in the bedroom connected by wifi?

Having multiple tuner boxes would mean a person could watch say bbc1 on main box and other person upstairs can look at itv from the second tuner.
With Saorview if someone was watching that it may not work upstairs as that 1 tuner is in use elsewhere.

What it actually does it uses a tuner on the main box and sends it to the other box but would prefare them to be hard wired with a lan cable as not using wifi and not all boxes have wifi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ODs4Rp4P4

Sat dish is handy and would need 2 feeds as normal to each room with a tv like with sky + hd.

Plenty of installers out there should be able to install outside aerial for Saorview and a sat dish.
Only question is how big do you need for lnbs Quad will do 2 rooms or Octo 4 rooms with 2 feeds to each room.

niallb

greasepalm wrote: »

...What it actually does it uses a tuner on the main box and sends it to the other box but would prefare them to be hard wired with a lan cable as not using wifi and not all boxes have wifi.
...
Only question is how big do you need for lnbs Quad will do 2 rooms or Octo 4 rooms with 2 feeds to each room.

I agree that wired is vastly preferable for transmitting TV, and if you're putting some money in up front this is a good place to consider spending it.

It's not necessary to have satellite cables going to each room though.
We use tvheadend on our "main" box. It's an old enigma2 box with two satellite tuners and one saorview tuner.
It's not even connected to a TV, just gets the tuners on the network. Some good support here on boards about setting them up.
I've also added two tuners on a different box by plugging it in in the attic next to the satellite dish and that worked fine.
The TVs will all look for an unused tuner or one tuned to the same Mux group of channels so I didn't need those extra tuners very often.

We use the same app called DreamPlayer on the main TV, an android box on the Kitchen TV, and a firestick in the bedroom to receive channels over the network.
Any laptops in the house or tablets can pick up the channels too using KODI and phones can use either Dreamplayer or KODI or stream in a web browser.
There are different versions of Dreamplayer for different setups, but they all look the same to the end user so you've the same interface on all TVs.
My EPG doesn't fill automatically at the moment, but it's all there after you tune in one Saorview and one Satellite channel for a few moments. I'm sure that's my fault!

All the channels whether Satellite or Saorview are on the same list and EPG too
which is a huge improvement over our previous LG "Smart TV".

Snakeweasel

lenovo1 wrote: »

In the process of buying a house and thinking about a good basic setup.

Option 1 looks the cleanest for no long term bills and basic Irish / UK channels.

Can I buy a FreeSat box in Ireland? Are they all the same?

Not sure on aerial or dish set up but I guess it might be worth investing. Any tips? Can I just get a guy to set it up? I presume I need multiple boxes for multiple TVs.

I don't think I will need to record, want to keep it simple.

I bought a second hand Humax 1100d on ebay, which strangely was more expensive than the new Freesat boxes, which I think has to do with them having reliability issues.

I really like the box and prefer the Freesat interface to the sky interface. However, I am looking at purchasing a zgemma box so that I can have both my Irish channels and English channels on the same box. I find I don't watch much on Saorview due to having to switch inputs, as lazy as that sounds!

niallb

Snakeweasel wrote: »

.. I find I don't watch much on Saorview due to having to switch inputs, as lazy as that sounds!

Exactly what happened to us with the LG Smart TV.
It had both satellite and terrestrial tuners,
but switching between the two was a pain in the neck.

ArrBee

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Plan on some form of press/cabinet in a reasonably central location to place internet router and other such centralised communication devices.

I also put 4 Sat tuners and 2 Saorview tuners in my cabinet.
I have Cat 5e cable running to each room from there.
I serve TV signals from the tuners to all TV points in the house, as well as to PCs, laptops, phones and tablets.

It takes some planning and a willingness to DIY a lot of it.
The end result is a complete media service for the whole house, including recordings, stored media as well as live TV.
All available to everyone.
It can easily be used to serve a remote location (holiday home) if the internet connection is fast enough.


There are several ways to do this. I chose one way, but most are equally good.

This sounds like the sort of thing I would like to do.
I've CAT6 through the house and bit of space where the switch and router sit.

I'm a little confused about accessing the signal over ethernet though.
Can I use a decommissioned sky+HD box as a twin sat tuner on the network, or would it need to be a sat tuner with special software to serve the clients?

If I want more that 2 sat feeds, do I just need more tuners (and split the signal somehow) or do I need to add sat dishes? currently I have a sky+HD dish (7years old) which works OK when direct connected to the TV Sat tuner.

niallb

ArrBee wrote: »

...
If I want more that 2 sat feeds, do I just need more tuners (and split the signal somehow) or do I need to add sat dishes? ...

Just tuners - you can in some cases just add external tuners by USB to the box you have. When you say more than 2 sat feeds do you mean you want to have multiple signals coming in for reasons of tuning?

If you mean instead that you'd like to be able to view from more than two locations, the tuners aren't dedicated to a particular TV, so if one is free it can be used.

Both JohnBoy1951 and myself are now using tvheadend after starting with enigma2. I learned a lot from reading through his older posts and am much happier with my system now after making the changes he suggested.

Johnboy1951

ArrBee wrote: »

This sounds like the sort of thing I would like to do.
I've CAT6 through the house and bit of space where the switch and router sit.

I'm a little confused about accessing the signal over ethernet though.
Can I use a decommissioned sky+HD box as a twin sat tuner on the network, or would it need to be a sat tuner with special software to serve the clients?

If I want more that 2 sat feeds, do I just need more tuners (and split the signal somehow) or do I need to add sat dishes? currently I have a sky+HD dish (7years old) which works OK when direct connected to the TV Sat tuner.

Are all the Cat6 cables coming back to the one location?
How many of them are there?
How are they presently terminated in that location?
Is there room for a 'media cabinet' in that location?

The Sky box is not suited to distributing on the LAN as Sat>IP tuners.
You would need a box to which you can get access to the operating system to allow the addition of some software.

I got some former 'dodgy' boxes given to me as they were due to go to the recycle yard. No cost. Zgemma H.2S devices. I played with those for a time. They have two sat tuners in each, and are software-accessible.

As you might have gathered from above I use Sat>IP with a tiny (former Android) box to control allocation of tuners to the client devices, which can be (in my case) anything that can run Kodi media player.

There are a number of threads in the HTPC section about various set ups, including how to distribute the Sky box output (costly). I suggest you read there before going much further, as it will provide some reference point for you.

con747

niallb wrote: »

Exactly what happened to us with the LG Smart TV.
It had both satellite and terrestrial tuners,
but switching between the two was a pain in the neck.

The LG new smart tv's has a quick access one button setup, if you long press 0 it gives you the option to set your inputs, so a long press on a certain button brings that input straight up so no multi button manoeuvres needed.

Johnboy1951

con747 wrote: »

The LG new smart tv's has a quick access one button setup, if you long press 0 it gives you the option to set your inputs, so a long press on a certain button brings that input straight up so no multi button manoeuvres needed.

Once you get used to one integrated channel list, in the order that suits you, even that work-around is a negative experience, but is so much better than what went before on many TVs and STBs.

ArrBee

niallb wrote: »

Just tuners - you can in some cases just add external tuners by USB to the box you have. When you say more than 2 sat feeds do you mean you want to have multiple signals coming in for reasons of tuning?


.

I mean having multiple simultaneous feeds for either viewing on different screens or for recording

greasepalm

Having 2 sat feeds on box allows viewing and recording at the same time.

Johnboy1951

ArrBee wrote: »

I mean having multiple simultaneous feeds for either viewing on different screens or for recording

Something like this might be of interest, depending on how you go about your set up.

https://telestar.de/en/produkt/digibit-r1-2/

It is capable of providing 4 tuners with a single cable coming from a Unicable LNB.

ArrBee

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Are all the Cat6 cables coming back to the one location?
How many of them are there?
How are they presently terminated in that location?
Is there room for a 'media cabinet' in that location?

The Sky box is not suited to distributing on the LAN as Sat>IP tuners.
You would need a box to which you can get access to the operating system to allow the addition of some software.

I got some former 'dodgy' boxes given to me as they were due to go to the recycle yard. No cost. Zgemma H.2S devices. I played with those for a time. They have two sat tuners in each, and are software-accessible.

As you might have gathered from above I use Sat>IP with a tiny (former Android) box to control allocation of tuners to the client devices, which can be (in my case) anything that can run Kodi media player.

There are a number of threads in the HTPC section about various set ups, including how to distribute the Sky box output (costly). I suggest you read there before going much further, as it will provide some reference point for you.

Yip all CAT6 is feed back to patch panel in a room where I have switches, router, modem and an ESXi server. There is space there for more stuff.
not all rooms are patched (I replaced phone lines to install CAT6 so only rooms that had a phone socket) but any room that is, has at least a double RJ45 socket.
One socket is in the garage, and I could house equipment there either.
Once it's on the network it won't matter where it is right?

Thanks, I'll take a look further into what's been done by others.
But it's good to know what is possible.

I am guessing that with the type of set up you are talking about it is easy to add tuners later on?
I would only need 2 to start with but can see more being needed in a few years...

ArrBee

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Something like this might be of interest, depending on how you go about your set up.

https://telestar.de/en/produkt/digibit-r1-2/

It is capable of providing 4 tuners with a single cable coming from a Unicable LNB.

OK, so from that link it looks like there would be 4 coax coming from the Dish, right?
My Sky+HD dish has 2 currently. Should it be able to take an extra 2 cables?

Johnboy1951

ArrBee wrote: »

OK, so from that link it looks like there would be 4 coax coming from the Dish, right?
My Sky+HD dish has 2 currently. Should it be able to take an extra 2 cables?

What 'it' are you referring to?
The Sky box has two tuners so two cables.

As I posted if you use a Unicable LNB then one cable will be sufficient for the Digibit to provide four tuners.
From a standard LNB you will need one cable per tuner.