Reporting tax evasion

Marie. N

Hi all, wondering if anyone knows how long it takes revenue to act on a report of tax evasion and what the procedure is?.. We're talking years of working cash in hand, signing on dole etc, a lot of documents and details were handed over,would it be a letter from revenue first or a visit?

Marie. N

Marie. N wrote: »

Hi all, wondering if anyone knows how long it takes revenue to act on a report of tax evasion and what the procedure is?.. We're talking years of working cash in hand, signing on dole etc, a lot of documents and details were handed over,would it be a letter from revenue first or a visit?

If documents were handed over it could happen within weeks once fully reviewed. They may also consult with legal depending how the documents were sourced.

Marie. N

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If documents were handed over it could happen within weeks once fully reviewed. They may also consult with legal depending how the documents were sourced.

Thats what i was thinking, i know its supposed to be completely anonymous however I'm worried for the person who reported it, especially since the business this tax dodger works for will also be caught for what we reckon is millions owed to revenue, my friend is due to move away and thinks they have months but because this is worth at least hundreds of thousands I'm not so sure revenue will leave it sitting on a desk

Marie. N

Marie. N wrote: »

Thats what i was thinking, i know its supposed to be completely anonymous however I'm worried for the person who reported it, especially since the business this tax dodger works for will also be caught for what we reckon is millions owed to revenue, my friend is due to move away and thinks they have months but because this is worth at least hundreds of thousands I'm not so sure revenue will leave it sitting on a desk

If from a credible source and well documented, I don't see it taking months, especially if a high sum is likely once penalties and interest are taken into account. The liklihood of her losing her job is high near term.


If a very high sum Revenue could turn up unannounced, instead of giving the usual notice to avoid funds being diverted.

AndrewJRenko

Dole fraud is a matter for Dept Social Protection, not Revenue.

WoollyRedHat

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Dole fraud is a matter for Dept Social Protection, not Revenue.

Surely if it's fraud across the board it's ultimately Revenues remit?

Dodge

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Surely if it's fraud across the board it's ultimately Revenues remit?

It’ll be a Garda issue if it’s that big a deal

Tax fraud - revenue

Welfare fraud - social protection

They’ll both have their own investigation

Dodge

Dodge wrote: »

It’ll be a Garda issue if it’s that big a deal

Tax fraud - revenue

Welfare fraud - social protection

They’ll both have their own investigation

Speaking from experience?;)

WoollyRedHat

Dodge wrote: »

It’ll be a Garda issue if it’s that big a deal

Tax fraud - revenue

Welfare fraud - social protection

They’ll both have their own investigation

Ok thanks, I stand corrected.

Dodge

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Speaking from experience?;)

Not yet *side eyes*

punisher5112

Was this person reported to social welfare?
If not there is an online form which can be done.

And if its millions it will end up in the media... in time.

Marie. N

Apparently revenue will bring the social welfare into it if they get a report of both types of fraud, what I'm really wondering about is procedure and timeline, dodge u may be able to answer this, what was the first approach by revenue, letter,? Or interview?. I'm hoping my friend will be thousands of miles away by that time but slightly worried a fraud this big would be a priority for them, she's perfectly safe and cannot be found or contacted by him but in the back of my mind there's a slight worry

Marie. N

Dodge wrote: »

Not yet *side eyes*

I'm really wondering if anyone knows the approximate timeline and procedure, as in will first contact be a letter or a visit with blue uniforms to the home or workplace? She really did supply evey document possible for an investigation, since she is now the far side of the country and has zero contact with him or anyone belonged to him there is no chance of hearing about it so getting well away sooner would be an option

punisher5112

Marie. N wrote: »

I'm really wondering if anyone knows the approximate timeline and procedure, as in will first contact be a letter or a visit with blue uniforms to the home or workplace? She really did supply evey document possible for an investigation, since she is now the far side of the country and has zero contact with him or anyone belonged to him there is no chance of hearing about it so getting well away sooner would be an option

I'd highly doubt they will make contact, I'd say if it's legit or at least looks it they will go in and investigate, if they made contact this would give them time to shut it down and possibly run.

hold my beer

Was it reported to the Garda too

Marie. N

hold my beer wrote: »

Was it reported to the Garda too

No it wasn't reported to gardai, and she also mentioned in the report his contingency plan to flee the country should he ever be caught, there is a list of crazy risks he took that i can't obviously go into too much, but taxing expensive cars to his address and paying a mortgage on a large house without any record of him working legitimately for years and signing on and off the dole during this time. Surely these facts and the documents to back them up would mean a fairly quick response from revenue

Darc19

If it's a large amount and documents were provided and revenue are fairly sure the company does not know what they have, it could take up to six months especially if there's any sophistication about the fraud.

They will cross check all the documents, possibly do a test purchase and have everything ready for a cab style estimated tax bill along with interest and penalties and freeze all assets and bank accounts.

Marie. N

Darc19 wrote: »

If it's a large amount and documents were provided and revenue are fairly sure the company does not know what they have, it could take up to six months especially if there's any sophistication about the fraud.

They will cross check all the documents, possibly do a test purchase and have everything ready for a cab style estimated tax bill along with interest and penalties and freeze all assets and bank accounts.

Absolutely nothing sophisticated about this fraud, the company is highly visible online under a few names but using the same phone number and address, and is highly visible from a main road with staff and customers highly visible coming and going along with staff cars parked outside every day, she's confident the business could be observed without anyone being the wiser

hold my beer

Marie. N wrote: »

No it wasn't reported to gardai,

Why not?

Marie. N

hold my beer wrote: »

Why not?

when she asked a garda friend of her family off the record for advice he recommended contacting revenue because of newer laws they have access to information regarding banks etc that its revenue who then contact gardai if its anything illegal like drugs or money laundering

huskerdu

Marie. N wrote: »

I'm really wondering if anyone knows the approximate timeline and procedure, as in will first contact be a letter or a visit with blue uniforms to the home or workplace? She really did supply evey document possible for an investigation, since she is now the far side of the country and has zero contact with him or anyone belonged to him there is no chance of hearing about it so getting well away sooner would be an option

There is no way anyone here can give an indication of the timelines of a particular Revenue investigation.

There is no standard timeline - it all depends on the individual case , how much investigation is required and how many other cases are being worked at the same time.

Dempo1

Marie. N wrote: »

Hi all, wondering if anyone knows how long it takes revenue to act on a report of tax evasion and what the procedure is?.. We're talking years of working cash in hand, signing on dole etc, a lot of documents and details were handed over,would it be a letter from revenue first or a visit?

Whilst not wishing to question the motivations behind such a report, Both Revenue and SW will be involved and this will add additional time, cross checking etc. Obviously the credibility of the complaint will be considered. If as the OP suggests the fraud is so extensive a knock on the doors is pretty assured and it's further likely CAB and the Gardai will be involved. In essence 4 seperate agencies are likely to involved in any investigation. It won't happen over night but when the doors are knocked on and assets /bank accounts frozen, it will be brutal assuming of course the complaint is ligitimate

Dempo1

Marie. N wrote: »

when she asked a garda friend of her family off the record for advice he recommended contacting revenue because of newer laws they have access to information regarding banks etc that its revenue who then contact gardai if its anything illegal like drugs or money laundering

I also suspect the Garda friend had a little peek also

Marie. N

Dempo1 wrote: »

Whilst not wishing to question the motivations behind such a report, Both Revenue and SW will be involved and this will add additional time, cross checking etc. Obviously the credibility of the complaint will be considered. If as the OP suggests the fraud is so extensive a knock on the doors is pretty assured and it's further likely CAB and the Gardai will be involved. In essence 4 seperate agencies are likely to involved in any investigation. It won't happen over night but when the doors are knocked on and assets /bank accounts frozen, it will be brutal assuming of course the complaint is ligitimate

Absolutely legitimate, I'm staggered at the full details of how these people have operated basically in plain site for so long, all the while claiming things like medical cards and social welfare its definitely amazed me and as someone who has paid tax and often struggled to cope financially i completely understand her reporting it... Don't think I'd have the guts to

punisher5112

Marie. N wrote: »

Absolutely legitimate, I'm staggered at the full details of how these people have operated basically in plain site for so long, all the while claiming things like medical cards and social welfare its definitely amazed me and as someone who has paid tax and often struggled to cope financially i completely understand her reporting it... Don't think I'd have the guts to

Well it's only right and fair play to her for doing so.
Way too much scamming going on....

Marie. N

Dempo1 wrote: »

I also suspect the Garda friend had a little peek also

Well retired garda and the far side of the country so I'm not sure he'd have a way to check himself, he did check the online companies and was amazed at the information already available regarding costs of products and it being a cash only business... Staggering

Dempo1

Marie. N wrote: »

Well retired garda and the far side of the country so I'm not sure he'd have a way to check himself, he did check the online companies and was amazed at the information already available regarding costs of products and it being a cash only business... Staggering

There's no such thing as a retired Garda

Marie. N

Dempo1 wrote: »

There's no such thing as a retired Garda

Very true lol, his opinion was really that this is huge and should be reported directly to revenue. He also recommended leaving the social welfare to revenue since they would likely act more quickly and give the opportunity for a cover up or flight before revenue got involved

Dempo1

Marie. N wrote: »

Absolutely legitimate, I'm staggered at the full details of how these people have operated basically in plain site for so long, all the while claiming things like medical cards and social welfare its definitely amazed me and as someone who has paid tax and often struggled to cope financially i completely understand her reporting it... Don't think I'd have the guts to

My one concern is your friends safety, reading between the lines it would seem they took quite a risk and I see mention of leaving the country. I'm assuming they have a direct contact with the person they reported too, I'd certainly be looking for some sort of assurances regarding my own safety. The alledged fraudsters don't seem like shrinking violets?

Dempo1

Marie. N wrote: »

Very true lol, his opinion was really that this is huge and should be reported directly to revenue. He also recommended leaving the social welfare to revenue since they would likely act more quickly and give the opportunity for a cover up or flight before revenue got involved

Yes that was good advice, Revenue will be in touch with revenue almost immediately.

Marie. N

Dempo1 wrote: »

My one concern is your friends safety, reading between the lines it would seem they took quite a risk and I see mention of leaving the country. I'm assuming they have a direct contact with the person they reported too, I'd certainly be looking for some sort of assurances regarding my own safety. The alledged fraudsters don't seem like shrinking violets?

Absolutely safe, far side of the country until a permanent move abroad to family and zero contact with this person in any way, also she waited months before reporting this, waiting until she was sure all ties were broken

ReadySteadyGo

I wonder how many tax cheats are reading this and wondering if it is them that will be getting the call.

ReadySteadyGo

ReadySteadyGo wrote: »

I wonder how many tax cheats are reading this and wondering if it is them that will be getting the call.

I'd say very few tax cheats running companies stupid enough to claim the dole and medical cards. Fewer still have employees know about it all.

Marie. N

ReadySteadyGo wrote: »

I wonder how many tax cheats are reading this and wondering if it is them that will be getting the call.

True, i must clarify that this thread has not only got my friends blessing but was her idea since we couldn't find a similar post on this and one other forum, and she is 100% confident the people concerned wouldn't know what an online forum is never mind keep up to speed with tax threads on the off chance, we are simply wondering what the usual course of action might be

Marie. N

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd say very few tax cheats running companies stupid enough to claim the dole and medical cards. Fewer still have employees know about it all.

Unfortunately we can't give the details that would make it very clear why this is the case and its more brazen dumb luck and not tax dodging skills that has allowed this to continue for so long

Dempo1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd say very few tax cheats running companies stupid enough to claim the dole and medical cards. Fewer still have employees know about it all.

If it were only true, history has proven time and time again Fraudsters start small, some perhaps on SW, see an opportunity, stay on SW and continue their enterprises. Only recently, high profile cases involved Defendants who had 100"s of thousands of assets seized, vast sums in bank accounts frozen only to apply for free legal aid because they are on SW. Medical card abuse is the lowest of low but in most cases a recipient of a social welfare payment automatically qualify for some form of medical card.

In summary, it's not at all surprising tax and SW cheats being ultimately quite stupid and re an employee aware of criminality, that is also a possibility depending of an employee's role etc.

Marie. N

Dempo1 wrote: »

If it were only true, history has proven time and time again Fraudsters start small, some perhaps on SW, see an opportunity, stay on SW and continue their enterprises. Only recently, high profile cases involved Defendants who had 100"s of thousands of assets seized, vast sums in bank accounts frozen only to apply for free legal aid because they are on SW. Medical card abuse is the lowest of low but in most cases a recipient of a social welfare payment automatically qualify for some form of medical card.

In summary, it's not at all surprising tax and SW cheats being ultimately quite stupid and re an employee aware of criminality, that is also a possibility depending of an employee's role etc.

When i see the decades old small businesses around the country that have not survived the pandemic despite being tax compliant from the beginning it makes it worse to see a business thriving during this time, illegally and i completely back my friends decision to report it

barneystinson

I'm getting the impression from a couple of things I've read on this thread, that some or all of the people involved here may be non-native to Ireland, and might well just high tail it overseas when the proverbial hits the fan. Is that the case OP, or am I wide of the mark?

Marie. N

barneystinson wrote: »

I'm getting the impression from a couple of things I've read on this thread, that some or all of the people involved here may be non-native to Ireland, and might well just high tail it overseas when the proverbial hits the fan. Is that the case OP, or am I wide of the mark?

No all are irish apart from one employee i believe

barneystinson

Marie. N wrote: »

No all are irish apart from one employee i believe

Ok thanks for clarifying. I read your reference to him having a contingency plan to skip the country if caught, as implying he wasn't from here originally!

Darc19

hold my beer wrote: »

Why not?

Because the regular gardai would probably take a couple of years and then screw it up. There would also be strong chance that details would come out thus warning the criminals

Revenue have far greater powers and will work in conjunction with CAB if necessary.

This approach is better as it can freeze all assets immediately before they know what is happening

0ph0rce0

Was is this lad haha

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/small-time-offaly-car-dealer-reveals-hisdisgust-at-massive-117m-tax-bill-40566736.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR3dY2njaD6VjuSesmph60-3l728D68YmB3oR-9D0TT5wnpDpWi92rlY5dU