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Pay Off From Work

  • 03-06-2021 6:21pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ NoIdea99


    Regular user but going anon on this one..

    So VERY brief back ground - was bullied in a job for 18 months, have left and have a great new job (thank god)...

    the "bully" is well know for his behaviour, has has 3 / 4 formal complaints against him before within same company, union were involved etc. i was on paid stress leave for 5 months at which time i said enough was enough and left. I have NEVER been in this situation before and hope its never repeated.

    feel SOOOOOO much better never having to deal with them again. The entire bullying situation was WELL documented by myself over the 18 months and HR..they are well aware of his behaviour, I spoke with Solicitors (while on stress leave to see if they could let me go) and they advised i have a very good case (I've no interest in perusing this line of action) ... anyway i left 3 months ago, never felt better ..

    Roll on this week i get a call out of the blue from HR asking me if i wanted to "settle" this through informal process... no idea what what that means ..
    they stated by way of compensation?

    Anyway here is my question - they are offering 3 months salary - anyone know if how this gets paid? ie tax liability etc paid gross or net etc?

    Any Advice?

    TIA


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,993 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Talk to your solicitors


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭ micar


    Ask them what are they prepared to offer to settle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,935 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    They are obviously concerned and know they are liable because of their behaviors and treatment of you...

    I’d speak with a solicitor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ NoIdea99


    Thanks all - I did speak with my solicitor and he has advised not to take anything but to go fully legal .. which I’m honestly not going to do .. my new employer whom I’m delighted to be working for ... has no idea.
    If this went to court the company is a well known state agency .. and I’ve been advised it will make the paper / or news .. so not risking that

    What I’m trying to find out is the amount paid out ..
    Gross and tax free? If will I have a tax liability?

    I’ve tried googling and can’t get an answer ..


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,668 ✭✭✭ Princess Calla


    DaCor wrote: »
    Talk to your solicitors

    Yup, sounds like HR know they will not win a case and have failed in their duty of care.

    I would imagine it would be classified as constructive dismissal. With zero research just a memory I think up to two years pay is the max you could be awarded.

    Now your question here about pay. I would imagine it will be processed like normal as in, put through payroll , paye, usc, prsi, pension deductions will all be taken from it. So you will probably come out with not much after tax as I presume all your credits are used in your current employment.

    I think statuary redundancy and retirement are the only payments where there's a tax free element in the calculation.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭ Snotty


    I know you don't want to pursue it through the court but they do not know that and they don't want it to happen, so 3 months is first offer.
    Your solicitor does want it to go to court as its a nice payday for him or her, so I'd tell him you aren't interested in going to court so you want him to handle this and what is the best way to get a better offer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭ Bicyclette


    They don't want this to go to the courts - bad publicity etc.

    Go in to negotiations with an open mind. Listen to what they have to say. Do the maths on how much a trip to court will cost them in terms of professional fees. One assumes they will get you to sign a non-disclosure as well.

    Don't accept anything at the first meeting. Tell them you need time to think. They may then come back to you with a higher offer, in order to help you think!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,129 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    NoIdea99 wrote: »
    Thanks all - I did speak with my solicitor and he has advised not to take anything but to go fully legal .. which I’m honestly not going to do .. my new employer whom I’m delighted to be working for ... has no idea.
    If this went to court the company is a well known state agency .. and I’ve been advised it will make the paper / or news .. so not risking that

    What I’m trying to find out is the amount paid out ..
    Gross and tax free? If will I have a tax liability?

    I’ve tried googling and can’t get an answer ..



    If you settle it then the bully may stay in their job and bully more people.

    If you go further it could force their hand to remove the bully.

    Go further would be my advice.

    You will most likely get another higher offer before it goes to court, a lot of these things get resolved on the steps of the court.


    Afaik court settlements are not taxable, but they may make a payment that doesn’t reference the incident out to be back pay or something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ NoIdea99


    Thanks all .. appreciate all your advice!

    On the bully staying a bully - unfortunately he’s done 30 years in the civil service now .. 4 cases of bullying (excluding mine) all resulted in some form of pay outs .. plus 4 people I know of went on record during exit interview stating he was the reason they were leaving .. yet he’s still there .. they will NEVER address him.. hence my exit..

    Lots of think about over the weekend .. won’t rush into anything .. and will consult my solicitor again!

    Thanks all


  • Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭ 1hnr79jr65


    Best to ask the solicitor what would be the best figure you could expect to win if it did go to court.

    Then you could potentially present to former employer that your acceptable settlement number is 50-75% of what your solicitor expects to be the best figure to win in court.

    Also point out clearly that if it does go to court and you do win, not only will you win a payout, but they will most likely incur all legal fees from all parties too, so the acceptable settlement number may be more palatable. Not to mention if it goes public from a court case they will be in a bad position when it becomes known the bully has had priors for same which they have not addressed.

    However that best figure is contingent on a number of factors and importantly a judge will always convey that all parties should sit down and negotiate a settlement before proceeding with the case. So think wisely how you want to approach knowing all that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭ lashes34


    If you won a case of unfair dismissal the pay out is 2 years salary tax free so I wouldn't be accepting their first offer. The fact they rang you gives you a massive upper hand, they will pay out way more than they are offering I would imagine. Good luck


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,306 ✭✭✭✭ jimmycrackcorm


    Your solicitor will get you a much better offer given that the bully has a provable history that wasn't dealt with.
    You don't actually want to go to court so either a better offer upfront or settling on the court steps is best.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭ griffin100


    There are 2 different claims you can consider here.

    One is a constructive dismissal claim and that's taken via the WRC. This would be related to you proving that you were forced to resign from your role by the behaviour of your employer - key to this is proving that you reported the bullying and the employer did nothing to protect you and so you had no option but to resign. This is ruled upon by an adjudicator appointed by the WRC. You usually have to bring these cases within 6 months of resigning.

    The other type of claim is a personal injury claim around stress as a workplace injury related to workplace bullying. You have 2 years from the date of the 'injury' to take these types of cases. If your bullying is alleged to have started 2 years ago you may get caught on statute. Personal injury claims for work related stress due to bullying can be difficult to prove and can take a good few days to work though in court and can be very expensive.

    When offering a settlement your ex employer is likely trying to get to to waive all rights re. future claims, and that would include both an unfair dismissals claim and a personal injury claim.

    I would get a good employment solicitor to advise you on this and whilst being mindful of the statutes not rush into any deal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,612 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Strumms wrote: »
    They are obviously concerned and know they are liable because of their behaviors and treatment of you...

    I’d speak with a solicitor.

    Look up constructive dismissal

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/dismissal/constructive_dismissal.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭ Jerry Attrick


    NoIdea99 wrote: »

    Anyway here is my question - they are offering 3 months salary - anyone know if how this gets paid? ie tax liability etc paid gross or net etc?


    See paragraph 4 of this:-

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-07/07-01-27.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ NoIdea99


    Just a brief update ..

    Soo spoke with solicitor today .. he has advised I have 3 options:

    1. Become a whistleblower

    2. Go to WRC and go down constructive dismissal/ unfair dismissal route - but as I’m in a new job I’ve no loss of earnings, or physical injury ..it’s very difficult to quantify
    so they more than likely will agree very serious case of bullying - but that’s it really .. they could offer €5k as a reward (substantially less than what they have proposed)

    3. Go full legal route - will be a whole world of hurt and still no guarantees, very stressful , take years , new employer would more than likely find out

    He also said the 2 years salary pay out amount - has only happened once in his career (that he has read) and highly unlikely.. one year at best - but have to way up pressure and stress ..

    He advice was .. if it were him - he’d take it and run..
    but it’s hush money .. I know it is

    It’s fully taxable as it would be considered income unless I pay straight into my pension..

    :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    Ask for 6, settle for 4 and walk away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ m21


    Case for personal injury(stress) and constructive dismissal. If you want to go down that road payout would be a lot more.

    Did you take a lesser job?
    Are prospects in new job good?
    Did you get paid while on stress leave?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ NoIdea99


    m21 wrote: »
    Case for personal injury(stress) and constructive dismissal. If you want to go down that road payout would be a lot more.

    Did you take a lesser job?
    Are prospects in new job good?
    Did you get paid while on stress leave?

    Truthfully new job is far better, lead role, far nicer team, generally a happy place to work, more money and long term prospects are brilliant (I realise I’m
    Incredibly lucky - in-fact still can’t figure out how it happened)


  • Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭ doc22


    I'd guess the 3 months salary offered would be 10-15k which is a sizable sum when you had no loss of earnings. No benefit in going further.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭ Ulysses1874


    NoIdea99 wrote: »
    Just a brief update ..

    Soo spoke with solicitor today .. he has advised I have 3 options:

    1. Become a whistleblower

    2. Go to WRC and go down constructive dismissal/ unfair dismissal route - but as I’m in a new job I’ve no loss of earnings, or physical injury ..it’s very difficult to quantify
    so they more than likely will agree very serious case of bullying - but that’s it really .. they could offer €5k as a reward (substantially less than what they have proposed)

    3. Go full legal route - will be a whole world of hurt and still no guarantees, very stressful , take years , new employer would more than likely find out

    He also said the 2 years salary pay out amount - has only happened once in his career (that he has read) and highly unlikely.. one year at best - but have to way up pressure and stress ..

    He advice was .. if it were him - he’d take it and run..
    but it’s hush money .. I know it is

    It’s fully taxable as it would be considered income unless I pay straight into my pension..

    :(


    You've been advised to take a course of action by your solicitor.


    With all due respect, you're not going to get better advice from a bunch of random boardsies.


    I'm not an employment lawyer, but I do have a qualification in the field and I spent a hefty part of my career advising public sector employers how to deal with cases like yours. So in your case, the best result they'll get is to give you some money to make you (and the problem) go away. Meanwhile for you, the best result you'll get is a bit of money. I honestly don't know if the bit of money is more or less than what's on offer, because I don't have all the details. But be aware that this is all you're likely to get. You're not going to bring the bully down or rock the system in some way if you go to court.


    If you've spoken to a solicitor and they've advised you it would be foolish for anyone on this thread to second-guess that advice. That said, I do hope your solicitor has some expertise in the field of employment law - some general solicitors are a bit naive when it comes to this stuff. The only twist I would suggest (but this is purely my negotiator's gut instinct) is that I'd never accept a first offer.



    By the way, the reason the two-year payout in Unfair Dismissals Act cases is so rare is that there are a lot of factors that have to come together to make it payable. You have to be really badly treated, you have to be out of work for a long time following the dismissal, but you also have to be able to show strenuous efforts to get work. That's an almost impossible combination, for what I'd say are pretty obvious reasons.


    Finally, I'll be blunt and say that talking to a solicitor or a union might help you get a little more out of your unfortunate situation - but going on about it on a public forum will not.


    Hopefully this is helpful.


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