If Gibraltar can join Schengen, why can't NI and ROI together?

Jeremy Sproket

One of the arguments against Ireland joining Schengen is that we have an open border with the UK (i.e., NI) and that to join Schengen one of three things would have to happen.


1: NI will join Schengen with the ROI and thus the island of Ireland will implement border checks with Britain (i.e., England, Scotland and Wales). Unacceptable to unionists.

2: ROI only joins and a border is erected between NI and ROI (unacceptable to nationalists on both sides and possible contrary to the GFA).

3: The UK and Ireland join together (unacceptable to Brexiteers which constitute roughly half of the population) and probably not feasible given that the UK have left the customs union (i.e., if there are no physical checks, where will customs checks happen?).

98.97% of Gibraltarians want their sovereignty remain as is (i.e., British) as of 2002. [1]

Roughly just over half of the NI population are unionist voters [2]. The remainder are a mix of nationalists and people who identify as something in between such as Northern Irish or "other".

If Gibraltar which seems to be more staunchly pro-British than NI can accept checks between Britain and The Rock, then why can't NI, with half the percentage of Unionism that Gibraltar has accept this? Gibraltar is to join Schengen source [3]

Joining Schengen would be wonderful for our country. Apologies for the wiki links.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Northern_Ireland

[3] https://www.euractiv.com/section/justice-home-affairs/news/gibraltar-joins-schengen-as-spain-uk-ink-11th-hour-deal/

0lddog

Jeremy Sproket wrote: »

.....Joining Schengen would be wonderful for our country. ....

Really ?

What do you think would be so great about it for an island such as Ireland ?

Immigration at Dublin airport still haven’t gotten their head around the CTA, so I doubt schengen would make any difference.

Beechwoodspark

Often wondered Why can’t ireland join schengen?

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

Immigration at Dublin airport still haven’t gotten their head around the CTA, so I doubt schengen would make any difference.

You'll find they are implementing the CTA perfectly.

jimmycrackcorm

Jeremy Beagle wrote: »

You'll find they are implementing the CTA perfectly.

If you fly from Dublin to say, Birmingham, you don't have to stand in a queue there to go through passport control.

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If you fly from Dublin to say, Birmingham, you don't have to stand in a queue there to go through passport control.

I know. That doesn't mean that Irish immigration are implementing the CTA incorrectly though. The UK authorities are quite entitled to channel you through passport control too, they just choose not to most of the time.

The Common Travel Area solely applies to citizens of the UK or the Republic of Ireland. How do you prove you're a citizen of somewhere?

biko

Entry and immigration policies are best handled at nation level and not union level.
Just because I live in a gated community doesn't mean I won't lock my front door at night.

Yurt2

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Often wondered Why can’t ireland join schengen?

Immediate hard border.


We would have joined a long time ago had Britain not been so suspicious of it.

JPup

The DUP’s collective heads would explode at just the thought of the 32 counties joining schengen without the rest of the UK. That’s why.

GT89

0lddog wrote: »

Really ?

What do you think would be so great about it for an island such as Ireland ?

Would basically mean taking a flight from Ireland to another Schegan country ie. the rest of Europe bar Britain would be the same as taking a train from Dublin to Cork. No need to passport checks or border control when entering Ireland.

Capt'n Midnight

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Often wondered Why can’t ireland join schengen?

Border controls and probably having to carry ID.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know. That doesn't mean that Irish immigration are implementing the CTA incorrectly though. The UK authorities are quite entitled to channel you through passport control too, they just choose not to most of the time.

The Common Travel Area solely applies to citizens of the UK or the Republic of Ireland. How do you prove you're a citizen of somewhere?

That’s true of any common travel area. It wouldn’t be much use if Schengen meant that trains and cars were always stopped at borders in case there were illegal immigrants.

Capt'n Midnight

NI, Gibraltar ? what's the difference


'I flew to Gibraltar instead of Belfast by mistake'

lintdrummer

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

NI, Gibraltar ? what's the difference


'I flew to Gibraltar instead of Belfast by mistake'

That's a pretty shocking security lapse on Easy Jet's part.

murpho999

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Border controls and probably having to carry ID.

If you're travelling in Schengen area, you're still required to carry a passport with you so there would no difference for Irish people travelling.

Only reason we're not in Schengen is because UK opted out and we have a border with them.

If we ever unite Ireland then we should join Schengen as it would make travel much quicker and easier for Irish people.

Capt'n Midnight

lintdrummer wrote: »

That's a pretty shocking security lapse on Easy Jet's part.

It's an internal flight.

Unless a passenger tried to go through the Schengen controls run by the Spanish authorities. Which is the only way to get to Gibraltar.

Joining Schengen would make no difference whatsoever. Travel to Europe is already seamless and hassle-free.

No idea what Irish people's fascination with it is.

robinph

murpho999 wrote: »

If you're travelling in Schengen area, you're still required to carry a passport with you so there would no difference for Irish people travelling.

Only reason we're not in Schengen is because UK opted out and we have a border with them.

If we ever unite Ireland then we should join Schengen as it would make travel much quicker and easier for Irish people.

The common travel area, or whatever it gets renamed as, will still be a sticking point. Will still have half of the population of NI wanting to be part of a different country.

You'd also have a few million people in the GB, and several hundred thousand in Ireland losing their right to residence etc without it.

murpho999

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's an internal flight.

Unless a passenger tried to go through the Schengen controls run by the Spanish authorities. Which is the only way to get to Gibraltar.

Internal does not matter.

The system still scanned a boarding pass for Belfast and accepted it on a Gibraltar flight.

Also, anytime I get on a flight a steward looks at your boarding pass at the door but they probably only checked the seat number which must have not been occupied by a person who had booked to go Gibraltar and would have highlighted the error then.

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

Joining Schengen would make no difference whatsoever. Travel to Europe is already seamless and hassle-free.

No idea what Irish people's fascination with it is.

You still have to queue in airports in Europe to show your passport and some countries are really bad with this.

For example I've often spent an hour queuing in Schiphol and Eindhoven to get my passport checked. It's annoying and inconvenient and if we were in Schengen we would just go straight out, and that is seamless.

murpho999

robinph wrote: »

The common travel area, or whatever it gets renamed as, will still be a sticking point. Will still have half of the population of NI wanting to be part of a different country.

You'd also have a few million people in the GB, and several hundred thousand in Ireland losing their right to residence etc without it.

I still think the benefits of Schengen would outweigh the benefits of CTA.

robinph

murpho999 wrote: »

I still think the benefits of Schengen would outweigh the benefits of CTA.

On a purely ease of international travel basis, yes.

But there is far more to it as you don't know what it would kick off in NI if travel to GB was made more restrictive. And then if you remove right of residence, voting, National Insurance / PRSI cover( or whatever that is now called) and a whole heap of other stuff. Whilst those things are not going to be part of the CTA agreement directly, once you start pulling at one thread there is a load of other things that will start falling apart... As evidenced by the pulling of the Brexit thread which then brings us here.

Jerry Attrick

murpho999 wrote: »

You still have to queue in airports in Europe to show your passport and some countries are really bad with this.

For example I've often spent an hour queuing in Schiphol and Eindhoven to get my passport checked. It's annoying and inconvenient and if we were in Schengen we would just go straight out, and that is seamless.

Same thing happened to the last time that I landed in CDG. :mad: Really infuriating as I had to get to Gare de l'Est to catch a TGV and barely made it.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Deleted User wrote: »

Joining Schengen would make no difference whatsoever. Travel to Europe is already seamless and hassle-free.

No idea what Irish people's fascination with it is.

As somebody with a non EU spouse, it would make my life a lot easier. But I don't know what it would do for most people.

Dyr

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Often wondered Why can’t ireland join schengen?

If the last year has though us anything its that we need less border control

ShatterAlan

GT89 wrote: »

Would basically mean taking a flight from Ireland to another Schegan country ie. the rest of Europe bar Britain would be the same as taking a train from Dublin to Cork. No need to passport checks or border control when entering Ireland.

Wouldn't that mean then that all those lads in Calais could just get on a ferry to Rosslare no questions asked?

ShatterAlan

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Wouldn't that mean then that all those lads in Calais could just get on a ferry to Rosslare no questions asked?

Probably why a lot of people want us to join.

XsApollo

Well one of the things that is screwed up about that and is rarely mentioned is.
That someone living in a European country can come to Ireland freely, they can also bring their spouse no problem regardless of what part of the world the spouse is originally from.
Due to some EU law.
Where as on the other hand an Irish person trying to bring a spouse from a non EU country is subject to Irish laws regarding the same.
Irish immigration controls and criteria and whatever else are a lot more stricter than EU.

So basically an EU citizen can bring anybody they like into Ireland because they are subject to EU rules and an Irish person can’t without meeting specific criteria.

You gotta love it when the OP starts a thread and never contributes after that.

ShatterAlan

murpho999 wrote: »

I still think the benefits of Schengen would outweigh the benefits of CTA.

Fcuk that!



I wouldn't be able to claim the dole on both sides of the border.

murpho999

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Fcuk that!



I wouldn't be able to claim the dole on both sides of the border.

You're not doing it right, with Schengen you can claim in 27 countries.

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's an internal flight.

Unless a passenger tried to go through the Schengen controls run by the Spanish authorities. Which is the only way to get to Gibraltar.

Gibraltar is in Schengen since Brexit so it wasn't an internal flight.

Jeremy Sproket

Passport queues are ridiculous in Ireland and move at a glacial pace. Especially certain times in T1. I remember I arrived from Gdánsk into Dublin and the queue was backed up to the compaveyor near the FR arrival gates.

in saying that, someone made a good point that the CTA is barely implemented. Although, the CTA is an "arrangement" Schengen is an agreement, so Ireland would have to comply.

Has anyone ever flown from the UK into smaller airports in Ireland? I.E., Donegal, Galway, Kerry, Waterford, Sligo, Knock and have you been put through passport control there?

At least flights form Kerry aren't forced through passport control, so we're doing something right :P I've never flown KIR to DUB btw so I might be wrong.