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Made redundant, Premium or Standard Dole?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ Smee_Again


    Long over due, pay more in should mean getting more out when needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    I don’t think that people on the dole will be “rich”. It’s people who paid in more getting out more. For a period of time. And only if your are let go, as now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭ PommieBast


    Personally I see no problem with someone who has not worked at all for 5+ years getting little or no dole and those who have forked out a lot of tax to get a lot back. It is not a substitute for actual work


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    Said it many times; the fact that someone who has never worked gets the same dole as someone who has worked for 25 years is an utter scandal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭ Housefree


    Artists getting a liveable wage now which will be the minimum wage, can see a lot of unemployed becoming artists


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭ brainboru1104


    Proper order. They contribute the most.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭ 0lddog


    Heighway61 wrote: »
    ....Heather Humphreys...


    Now, That Lady.... 'suppose its just me that finds her way of speaking a little, errr, rough ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,752 ✭✭✭ touts


    I think the PUP has clearly shown that there is a need for different levels of welfare. Perhaps even a basic universal income. I know a few people who have spent the last year on the PUP and who have used that time to get set to launch their own business. They don't plan to go back to their old jobs. They plan to set up their own. One lad was working as a barber. He spent the last few months kitting out an old shop unit near him and opened a couple of weeks ago. One girl was working in an office and is setting up her own gig offering some sort of service to businesses. The PUP, along with a fortunate decrease in the usual spending, helped these and a few others I know to take the leap into their own business.

    Government should give extra to people with drive and potential.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,101 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    When you have contributed for 20 plus years and then find yourself not only getting the same dole as someone not working a day in their life but additionally only qualifying for this same dole for 9 months because over those 20 years you saved up your money, then dole cancelled because you don't 'qualify' for it, that's enraging and what happens now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭ Murph85


    Great! Cancel the xmas welfare bonus that only the long term unemployed get next, scandalous bs! A bonus for being a waster, only in Ireland...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭ Confused11811


    While they're at it they should link children's allowance to PRSI contribution.

    You should only get a basic children allowance for one child, with the exception being for twins, triplets and so on. After that children's allowance for 2nd or more children should only given to those who have paid previously paid PRSI contributions in our state.

    Encourage the workers to have children. End inter generational unemployment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    When you have contributed for 20 plus years and then find yourself not only getting the same dole as someone not working a day in their life but additionally only qualifying for this same dole for 9 months because over those 20 years you saved up your money, then dole cancelled because you don't 'qualify' for it, that's enraging and what happens now.

    I think it’s 6 months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,101 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    fvp4 wrote: »
    I think it’s 6 months.


    Yes 6 months if you have up to up to 5 years contributions, 9 months if you have 5 years plus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ tjhook


    Up until 10 years or so ago, there was a ceiling on the income exposed to PRSI. I suppose that was a recognition that since the payout is fixed, it's fairer to limit the payments people are forced to make to it.

    Now that they've removed the ceiling, it's become a tax. It's no longer insurance. The payout is in no way related to contributions. In fact, there's very little difference in the benefit received even if you've never paid PRSI.

    Relating the benefit to the payment would go some way to bring the "I" back into PRSI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,305 ✭✭✭✭ jimmycrackcorm


    Self-employed people and entrepreneurs have largely been stigmatized by the state in favour of MNC's. You could start a business with little or no help from the state, employ staff that contribute taxes, and if your business failed, there was no dole or supports from the state.

    Someone who loses their job also has a more difficult financial outlook as by virtue of getting paid they will have financial commitments such as a mortgage, car loan etc. But someone on the dole already is more likely to be receiving HAP or other financial assistance.

    In normal (non-pandemic) circumstances, someone who loses their job is also more likely to get another one in a shorter period of time, they will be back contributing tax again, so it seems only fair that they get some higher benefit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze


    Said it many times; the fact that someone who has never worked gets the same dole as someone who has worked for 25 years is an utter scandal.

    People on JSA actually get more, as they get the Xmas bonus!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze


    Self-employed people and entrepreneurs have largely been stigmatized by the state in favour of MNC's. You could start a business with little or no help from the state, employ staff that contribute taxes, and if your business failed, there was no dole.

    "dole" = JSA.

    Self-employed people could always apply for JSA, just like anybody else.

    You may be thinking of JSB?



    Note that the Govt extended JSB to self-employed workers in 2019:

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_benefit_self_employed.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭ Pronto63


    While they're at it they should link children's allowance to PRSI contribution.

    You should only get a basic children allowance for one child, with the exception being for twins, triplets and so on. After that children's allowance for 2nd or more children should only given to those who have paid previously paid PRSI contributions in our state.

    Encourage the workers to have children. End inter generational unemployment.

    Agreed or maybe give the allowance as cash for first child and then some form of tax credit for subsequent kids. That way only “workers” get it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 685 ✭✭✭ Vestiapx


    Housefree wrote: »
    Artists getting a liveable wage now which will be the minimum wage, can see a lot of unemployed becoming artists

    It's been the case for years that artists dont get the same Hassel to do a course and just get paid their dole and allowances but unconditional and opt in seems very open to abuse. I can't be alone in saying id like to write a book a few hours a day while spending extra time with my kids while they are young.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,740 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1


    0lddog wrote: »
    Now, That Lady.... 'suppose its just me that finds her way of speaking a little, errr, rough ?

    As a Badger's A****, horrible accent :)

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    Pronto63 wrote: »
    Agreed or maybe give the allowance as cash for first child and then some form of tax credit for subsequent kids. That way only “workers” get it.

    Having lived in deprived parts of Dublin for a while I think the only effect this would have is that some kids would really suffer. No one has children so they can claim 140 a month.

    The dole should be linked to PRSI contributions and earnings though- it is in other countries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,740 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1


    I'm fascinated at what I perceive as preferencial treatment & sentiments towards Artists on SW/PUP, rarely is such sentiments shown towards others on PUP, indeed others have been smeared and ridiculed with gusto. The vast majority affected by the Pandemic were PAYE workers, most never saw the door of a social welfare office let alone its interiors.

    Personally I believe everyone should be treated equally and it would seem any preferential treatment could and will be seen as discriminatory and rightly so. I believe a basic living wage for ALL is certainly worth considering. When considering at one point up to 800k people in Ireland at one time in the past 12 months required state income support, it's certainly proved a new approach is required, also worth pointing out Income Tax receipts barely impacted throughout the pandemic despite so many out of work and that surely suggests far to many citizens earning so little, they pay little or no income tax.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,620 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    Heighway61 wrote:
    Premium dole for the rich?

    Reducing the public money supply won't be good for the economy, it will reduce economic activities, we ll become dependent on deposits and new private sector loans to expand our economy, but will it work!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Captain Havoc


    They have a similar system in Switzerland where you get 70% of what your wages were over the past year for one year. After that it's give or take €900 per month for a single person with possible other benefits like housing. Linky


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,359 ✭✭✭✭ Maryanne84


    Does this mean that they’re going to give more to long term unemployed?

    “The proposal would see those who have been in long-term employment entitled to a higher payment than the current standard social welfare payment, receiving a percentage of their salary for a specific number of weeks or months when they lose their job.
    Once the interim period is over, they would then receive the standard payment only.
    For those who do not have enough contributions, they would be placed on the existing Jobseekers payment of €203.”

    https://www.thejournal.ie/pay-related-social-welfare-5454616-Jun2021/


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    Maryanne84 wrote: »
    Does this mean that they’re going to give more to long term unemployed?

    “The proposal would see those who have been in long-term employment entitled to a higher payment than the current standard social welfare payment, receiving a percentage of their salary for a specific number of weeks or months when they lose their job.
    Once the interim period is over, they would then receive the standard payment only.
    For those who do not have enough contributions, they would be placed on the existing Jobseekers payment of €203.”

    https://www.thejournal.ie/pay-related-social-welfare-5454616-Jun2021/

    Long term employment


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,359 ✭✭✭✭ Maryanne84


    fvp4 wrote: »
    Long term employment

    Doh! Time for a coffee!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,281 ✭✭✭✭ TheValeyard


    The dole should be there if you need it. It shouldn't be a dirty thing. Its a fallback to help working people get back on their feet. I see zero issue in working people getting bit extra until they can find employment again. These people want to be contributing to society and earning an income, not sitting at home all day doing nothing.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,964 ✭✭✭ Allinall


    It's called Pay Related Social Insurance.

    About time it was used as designed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ ClosedAccountFuzzy


    Almost everywhere else in Europe, including France (a country we would consider more socialist than here) for example, they have a much much larger payment available on the basis of insured contributions - usually a high % of your previous income (subject to a cap) for up to two years. The logic of is that you’ve paid (heavily) into a social insurance fund and that you’re entitled to genuine income protection for a period of time, not just a small payment to meet minimum means.

    There’s a basic payment too if you’re long term unemployed, or don’t have any payments into the social insurance system.

    The issue in Ireland at present is that if you become unemployed, you can hit the wall in terms of income drop and go into a cascade of problems, including potentially losing your home while you’re between jobs. It’s not much of a safety net. The same applies in the UK too.

    Our PSRI system often just seems like another layer of income tax as, unlike in other EU countries, it doesn’t seem to be very insurance based, rather it’s just tax.

    My concern here is that they don’t go down the route of making the underlying non insured dole a payment that is set too low. If you do that you’ll just drive people into poverty, Tory style.

    If they’re genuinely going towards a European style system great. If it’s some Tory inspired welfare cut dressed up as a European style system, it could cause major issues.

    Reorganising it a bit is long overdue though.

    Hopefully employment levels bounce back very quickly here in the next couple of months. The figures at the moment are eye watering, but they’re entirely pandemic related.


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