Jury duty?

Pauliedragon

Just a question for the legal minds here. I got a jury summons today and ordinarily it wouldn't bother me. My issue is I haven't worked in over a year (hospitality) and the trial is early July when the industry is meant to be opening up fully so Iwas hoping there would be a glut of jobs which I can't apply for if I'm sitting in a courtroom day in day out. My main questions are how many people get called before they pick the 12 and also the letter says if I'm not picked I will be "requested to to attend on subesequent days for another selection". Does that mean if I'm not selected on that day I'm on indefinate standby for the next trial?

Phoebas

I also got a Jury summons yesterday.
On mine it says I need to attend on the Tuesday for 4 days (or longer if I get a trial).
Yours may be similar.

Pauliedragon

Phoebas wrote: »

I also got a Jury summons yesterday.
On mine it says I need to attend on the Tuesday for 4 days (or longer if I get a trial).
Yours may be similar.

Mine says I've been summoned for 2 weeks but naturally that can vary.

Peregrinus

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Mine says I've been summoned for 2 weeks but naturally that can vary.

You'll have to attend each day for up to two weeks until you are picked for a case.

If you are picked for a case, then you're needed all day, every day, until the cas concludes. For the great majority of cases, this will be for one or two days. Then you're in the clear. But in theory it could be weeks, if you are picked for one of the (rare) cases that runs for weeks.

If you're not picked for a case, you'll be free to leave , but you'll have to come back the next day. On the second and subsequent days this usually means you're either on a jury within an hour or so of arrival, or free to leave for the day.

I say that, if not picked, you may have to come back each day for up to to weeks. It's usually less than this; they'll have a number of cases on the list for this session and they may start have empanelled juries for all of them well within two weeks. Once they have juries for all the cases in the list you don't have to come back.

Having to come back every day for up to 2 weeks and not being on a jury is a big strain on a person's job/family.

Peregrinus

whatnow! wrote: »

Having to come back every day for up to 2 weeks and not being on a jury is a big strain on a person's job/family.

It's a big strain on your job if you have one. But depending on the nature and location of your job, until actually picked for a jury you may be able to be at work by mid-morning and work for most of the day.

Not so much a strain on your family; in fact if you can't go to work then you may get to spend time with them that you wouldn't normally spend.

If you're employed, your employer will give you leave for jury service and pay your wages as normal, so there's no financial loss. If you're self-employed it's a different matter, of course. If it's going to cause you financial hardship, this might be a basis for seeking an exemption.

Jim2007

whatnow! wrote: »

Having to come back every day for up to 2 weeks and not being on a jury is a big strain on a person's job/family.

Is getting up every morning and going to work every morning a big strain, you just have to go to a different location for a couple of days, a bit of inconvenience and disruption at best.

Your country and your community asks very little of you, surely you could manage a couple of days inconvenience in your lifetime!

Phoebas

My summons is for the High Court.

Anyone have experience of this?
I'm assuming that I'm more likely to get a more complex case in the High Court that could go on for weeks.

cantalach

I strongly disagree with trial by jury, so much so that until the last General Election when I finally cracked, I had been off the Register of Electors for about 12 years to ensure I couldn't be called.

I could not honestly claim to be free of bias if adjudicating on a criminal case where my instinct told me somebody was guilty. The judge might direct me to disregard this or that, but I'm not sure that I could. And I would also struggle to be dispassionate in any David v Goliath civil case. If [insert least favourite property developer] wants to drive poor Mary and Johnny out of their home, I'm not going to side with them no matter what the evidence says.

As neuroscience can now prove, we are not rationale beings. Our decision making is driven largely by emotion. The idea that we make decisions based on reason is one of the great self-delusions.

It seems odd to me that whereas fitness to practice hearings by professional bodies are adjudicated upon by highly trained specialists, a murder trial with the potential to deny somebody of their liberty for twenty years is adjudicated upon by twelve bozos (like me) off the street. In other words, for some of the most life-altering decisions in the land, we use untrained amateurs.

Juries should be professional. One should have to train to become a juror, and only gain admittance to that training after thorough psychological screening.

So with all that said, is there any precedent for a potential juror to express the above to a judge - without being held in contempt - and get a bye from serving?

Pauliedragon

Not sure if anyone will be able to answer this one but I should be registering for the jab next week so what happens if my appointment is set for one of the days I'm in court? I'm guessing I'll be told cancel the jab.

ED E

Peregrinus wrote: »

You'll have to attend each day for up to two weeks until you are picked for a case.

This is possibly incorrect at present. The letter says it but during covid the courts service have changed their procedure.

They've been calling ~40 people per case, selecting a panel as normal then sending all others home. They can be recalled at a future date with a new letter but no every day attendence.

Source: served as a juror in CCJ during covid.

Jim2007

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Not sure if anyone will be able to answer this one but I should be registering for the jab next week so what happens if my appointment is set for one of the days I'm in court? I'm guessing I'll be told cancel the jab.

The reason they have a pool is because they expect some will be unable to attend, be disqualified or challenged. Most likely you will be excused for that day unless already on a jury. But tell them ASAP.

Jim2007

Phoebas wrote: »

My summons is for the High Court.

Anyone have experience of this?
I'm assuming that I'm more likely to get a more complex case in the High Court that could go on for weeks.

No experience as a juror, but as an expert witness back 20+ years ago.

Yes the cases are more complex, but the stakes are higher and the costs are greater, so the motivation to keep it short or to even settle are higher as well.

Of course it’s the luck of the draw as to which case you get or if you even get picked, but I’d say a week or two would be most common.

Darthvadar

Phoebas wrote: »

My summons is for the High Court.

Anyone have experience of this?
I'm assuming that I'm more likely to get a more complex case in the High Court that could go on for weeks.

I was called for Jury Duty in the High Court.

I attended on the first day (Tuesday). Entered the courtroom at about 10.30am. The court clerk called out the list of about eighty people called for duty. About a quarter didn't turn up. The judge (Mr Justice Bernard Barton) remarked that those people would 'face penalties'. Then the Court List of cases waiting to be heard, or struck out, or adjourned was read out, and the lawyers did their bit, advocating for their clients. After those issues were argued, there were about five cases left needing a full hearing before a judge and jury. Judge Barton informed us that he was continuing to hear a case already started the previous day. He expected it to continue for a week or so, and there were no other judges free to hear any new cases that day. He dismissed us at about midday, and instructed us to return the following day.

The next day (Wed) was more of the same, but we were dismissed at about 11 o'clock, and again were instructed to return the following day. Judge Barton told us that if the situation remained the same in relation to the non-availability of judges to hear new cases, he would release us from service the next day.

The following day (Thursday), Judge Barton informed us that the case he was hearing had settled, and he was available to hear a new case. The clerk then drew names from a bowl, and I was selected along with eleven others. The rest of the jury pool was dismissed, and didn't need to return. We then took the Jurors Oath. By the time all of this was done, it was lunchtime, so we didn't sit until about 2.30pm.

I've told you this to give you an indication of the type of delays that can occur before you even find out if you are selected to sit on a jury.

The case I was on was a civil one (I don't think there are criminal matters in the High Court heard by a jury). The matter before us was Defamation, relating to an elderly couple in a supermarket. There was a disagreement as to whether they were accused of not paying for an item.

As mentioned, the case only began that afternoon (Thursday) at 2.30pm and carried on until 4pm. We heard some evidence from one witness, but were sent to the Jury Room during that session for about twenty minutes.

Next day (Friday) we returned and the case resumed. We heard the rest of the evidence from the previous day's witness. We only heard a small amount of evidence from the second witness. We spent most of the day in the Jury Room drinking coffee and eating biscuits, crisps and chocolate bars (provided by the court) because there were legal arguments needing to be heard outside of our presence. Again, we left at 4pm. Judge Barton told us that Mondays are 'Admin days' in the High Court, and he'd be hearing matters unrelated to our case, so we were instructed to return on the Tuesday.

We were about an hour into hearing evidence on the Tuesday when we were asked to return to the Jury Room for thirty minutes. That turned into an hour before we returned to court. We were told that a legal matter had arisen, that a mistrial was being declared, and that we were being discharged. Judge Barton thanked us for our time and committment to the case, and we were excused from future Jury Duty for a period of five years. We were treated with nothing but curtesy, and kindness by all of the court staff throughout my time there. The judge and lawyers were gentlemen through and through. We were encouraged to let the court know if we ran into any personal difficulties during our service, and the court would endeavour to accommodate us.

I've told you my story to give you an indication of the time and effort that could be required from you if called, and it could be considerable.

All I will say is, if you truly believe that this will cause you hardship, you could contact the Jury Office and pleaad your case to be excused. I found them very understanding when I was caring for my late mum. They excused me on two occasions without quibble when I was called. In fact, they even apologised for calling me a second time when I was a carer. In addition, when I arrived to serve on this occasion, the court clerk asked me if I'd like to be excused (I'm a wheelchair user, and there were some serious access issues in an old building). I was happy to serve, but I appreciated the offer.

What I would say is, I was disappointed that the case ended as it did. Would love to have seen it through to jury deliberation, but it wasn't to be. It was an interesting few days, and I enjoyed it very much, but I had no other demands on my time. Would I willingly do it again? In a heartbeat, I would!

Whatever happens, I hope everything works out for you, and you find the job of your dreams. Those of you working in hospitality have had an appalling time of it recently.

Darth.

Darthvadar

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Not sure if anyone will be able to answer this one but I should be registering for the jab next week so what happens if my appointment is set for one of the days I'm in court? I'm guessing I'll be told cancel the jab.

Only seeing this question now. Sorry.

You can call the HSE Covid Helpline at 1850 241 850. They are very helpful, and will reschedule your appointment. I had to reschedule an appointment for a friend because she had another committment, and it was easily done.

Darth.

bobbyness

Jim2007 wrote: »

Is getting up every morning and going to work every morning a big strain, you just have to go to a different location for a couple of days, a bit of inconvenience and disruption at best.

Your country and your community asks very little of you, surely you could manage a couple of days inconvenience in your lifetime!

Good luck convincing me that paying some of the highest tax rates in Europe is the Country asking "very little of me"

Jim2007

bobbyness wrote: »

Good luck convincing me that paying some of the highest tax rates in Europe is the Country asking "very little of me"

Since you clearly don’t let the facts interfere with your opinions there would be no point.

bobbyness

Jim2007 wrote: »

Since you clearly don’t let the facts interfere with your opinions there would be no point.

Would be more inclined to agree had you presented any facts.

Peregrinus

bobbyness wrote: »

Would be more inclined to agree had you presented any facts.

To be fair, your own assertion wasn't exactly well-supported with facts.